In the latest episode of “Business Casual,” Pola Lem and Maria Wich-Vila welcome guest host Matt Simmons from Fortuna Admissions to discuss the dynamic landscape of hiring in MBB (McKinsey, Bain, and BCG) for MBA graduates. The conversation also takes a delightful detour into the world of football, giving listeners a glimpse into the hosts’ personal lives and interests, making for a refreshing blend of professional insights and casual chat.
One key takeaway from their discussion is the evolving narrative around the hiring slowdown at MBB firms. Despite perceptions, the reality is nuanced, with specific sectors experiencing fluctuations. This insight is crucial for MBA applicants who aspire to join these elite consulting firms, highlighting the importance of targeted industry knowledge and strategic career planning to navigate potential market shifts successfully.
Another highlight is the emphasis on the adaptability and resilience required in today’s job market. Both Matt and Maria underscore the significance of networking and internships as pivotal components of an MBA trajectory, providing practical exposure and building connections that can be leveraged during uncertain recruitment periods. This episode is invaluable for anyone aspiring to make their mark in top-tier consulting, offering both strategic advice and a touch of personal warmth through the hosts’ engaging dialogue.
Episode Transcript
Note: This transcript was generated by AI and may contain minor inaccuracies.
[00:00:03] – Pola
Hello everyone, I’m Pola Lem with Poets and Quants, and welcome to our weekly podcast Business Casual. So I am joined today by my co-host Maria Wickvila, and today standing in for Caroline, we have Matt Simmons of Fortuna Admissions. So Maria, as you know, is the founder of ApplicantLab, and Matt He is co-founder at Fortuna Admissions, and he’s also a presence in the business school world with fingers in lots of pies. Maybe most famously, he’s the S in QS. So, Matt, welcome to our weekly get-together.
[00:00:41] – Matt
It’s really nice of you to have me on the podcast where the dress code is written on the label, right?
[00:00:48] – Pola
Exactly. Yeah, I think we stay true to business casual. For the most part. The hot summer weather has made for some interesting exceptions. But so, so we can all get to know you, Matt, I’m going to ask a very important and really relevant today, I think, question. Who are you supporting in the World Cup?
[00:01:14] – Matt
Ah, we have a lot of passports in our family. My daughter June Rainbow, is, um, definitely for Les Bleus, the French. Um, but something happens every 4 years and, uh, suddenly I become a Three Lion. So I shall be staying up to some crazy time in the night, uh, hoping that we can get past Argentina. Sorry, Maria. Um, and all the way to the final. 60 years. It’s gotta happen.
[00:01:40] – Pola
Good. Yeah, there was, I should say, there was only one right answer to that, and that’s I’m supporting England. Um, Matt, who’s your favorite player?
[00:01:50] – Matt
I’ve also—
[00:01:50] – Pola
do you have one?
[00:01:51] – Matt
Um, my favorite player no longer plays, uh, England player Bobby Charlton, who of course was in the 1966 final. Um, incredible stats, but the one I love is that he never, uh, got a yellow card. He, he never fouled everyone. He was, you know, fair play through and through. Didn’t have the best haircut, but, um, that would have been Georgie Best. And then Johan Cruyff, who who showed the world that you can smoke and be a philosopher, but also be one of the world’s greatest footballers all in one.
[00:02:21] – Maria
Wow.
[00:02:22] – Pola
Okay, that was a much better answer than I was hoping for. You clearly know a lot more about football. Maria witnessed my epic fail last week trying to remember who I’d seen play. But I will say, I think my favorite player, I’m very much here for the vibes, as I said last week, but mine has to be Gordon. For a couple of reasons. I like his kind of floppy, non-footballer floppy hair. Very nice. And it’s red. And also because his surname is Ajin, and because of the assists, obviously, that’s another reason. Maria.
[00:03:00] – Matt
It’s a shame that all the business schools, all the students between year 1 and year 2 are in their internships or those that have graduated because Wouldn’t the World Cup just be the most fun around, you know, 70 nationalities on the campus and everyone has their team, including Cap Verde, right? They get a special mention, I’m sure, every time you do this podcast.
[00:03:21] – Pola
We haven’t mentioned them yet, but it’s high time. Maria, who— so you’re supporting Argentina this week?
[00:03:28] – Maria
No, I— well, I mean, so now that my Colombian cafeteros have been kicked out, it was heartbreaking and I was actually like surprisingly very sad about it. So I mean, I don’t— I’m not going to pick up my crayons and take my toys and go home, but my emotional commitment to the World Cup has fallen off a cliff. Um, Argentina, you know, Colombia and Argentina have a sort of a complicated love-hate thing going on. So I, you know, I want the Latin American team to represent us on the world stage. It does not escape my notice that many of these European teams often have people from their diasporas, uh, playing, you know, from their, from their former colonial— I should say, from Latin America or African, uh, colonies playing for them, uh, and the Latin American teams may not often get the other way around. So I do like the, the representation for either Latin American teams or European teams that have people of descent who, you know, maybe their parents were from— you know, I think one of the, um, one of the players for Switzerland— actually, the, the, the Colombian-Switzerland game went down to penalty kicks and it came down to the last one and it was Vargas versus Vargas.
[00:04:38] – Maria
So the Colombian last— Colombian player’s last name was Vargas, and the Swiss player’s last name was also Vargas. So, you know, um, but I guess I have to root for Spain even though I’m pretty sure France is probably going to win it, just because, you know, we’re, we’re— we might move to Spain at some point. So they, as, as my potential former— my, my former— my future potential homeland, uh, I guess I’m moving, I’m moving to them. But With a sad and heavy heart, I am shifting my alliances.
[00:05:11] – Pola
Well, and there we’ve just learned a new thing about you, which is you might move to Spain one day. So I’d love to talk about football for more of the podcast, which incidentally I’ve already said I know nothing about, but we’ve got a more relevant business school topic to talk about, and that is this week, consulting. So specifically, looking at the employment pipelines into the Big 3 consultancies from the MBA and business school pathway. So these are the Big 3, the MBB, McKinsey, Bain, and BCG. And conveniently, I recently wrote a piece, a feature for Poets and Quants about this. So specifically, I was looking at questions like, are the Big Three hiring fewer graduates lately? Has that sort of ideal candidate profile changed? And also, how are AI and geopolitics shaping the recruiting process and the timelines around that? So first, it’s worth noting that the competition to get into these consultancies is steep. So one recent INSEAD grad and McKinsey hire, uh, told me that 2/3 of his classmates, uh, he thinks are heading into consulting, applied for the MBB. And another student I spoke to described this sort of grueling schedule that she had.
[00:06:43] – Pola
So she prepped for basically 4 months, 15 hours a week of prep on average. She did 50 roughly mock interviews and had dozens of conversations with contacts at prospective employers.
[00:06:59] – Matt
Everybody should read the article. I think a great piece of journalism and, you know, actually to prize some of the numbers out of these firms, uh, you know, looking at it, as you said, highly competitive. It’s, it’s sort of the gold standard, right? For many, um, not necessarily where everyone would be happiest. And that’s perhaps something that we’ll get to as, as we look at this discussion. But, um, you know, the, the lingering story, AI kills consulting. I think that kind of gets the story backwards. Demand perhaps in the past 2, 3 years. We’ve seen the class of what, ’24, ’25 not being picked up in, um, you know, similar numbers to the previous years. But, um, you’re ’26, it’s, um, consulting’s the biggest seller of the disruption it’s threatened by. Um, I think BCG just hit what, record revenues in 2025, 22nd straight year. Um, so very tough to get into. Um, but there’s this big shift, right? In terms of, I think you described it really well in the piece, moving from that smart generalist to the generalist that has a vertical. So it’s not just, did you go to one of the world’s top business schools?
[00:08:07] – Matt
Obviously, you know, INSEAD and Kellogg and Duke and Sloan and others that have been tremendous pipelines to MBB, but they want more. And, you know, AI is clearly part of that, but perhaps I’ll stop there. And we can also bring Maria into the conversation.
[00:08:25] – Pola
And I’m so sorry first for having twice now said that you worked for Bain when you didn’t. I think I’ll highlight this is one of the perils of looking up people using AI because it— when we’ve talked about those perils before, so that serves me right. So Maria, Matt’s already touched on this, but, you know, part of this conversation that, that things that I’ve been hearing from, I should say, admissions, uh, careers heads, is that a few years ago, people applying for these companies had very much a generalist profile. On the, on the part of careers teams, there’s a view that now these companies are much more interested in students’ pre-MBA profiles than in the past, and specialist profiles. Would you say that’s true?
[00:09:24] – Maria
I do think that is true, and I think it’s because the firms themselves, you know, at the, at the beginning— by the beginning, I mean decades ago, uh, the strategy firms could just come in, recommend a strategy, and then say, here’s your very nice binder, uh, with our very nice slides and our very nice charts, and good luck to you. And then they would take off and sail off into the sunset. And then it was up to the client to actually implement those changes. Clients, these corporate clients that hired the consulting firms, I suspect have started to become much more demanding, more bang for their buck. And so I’ve seen in the past decade or two, a lot of these strategy firms that I think 30 years ago would have never dreamt of touching an actual implementation now almost have to go more into the implementation. Side of things, right? So it’s not just about, well, let’s pontificate and think about this pie-in-the-sky, you know, blue-sky strategy. Now, oh, now we actually need to implement it. And because I do think that even the OG strategy firms have started moving more towards implementation, have started moving more towards— we have a digital firm now that doesn’t just tell you what you should build, but we help you build it.
[00:10:34] – Maria
We have a human consulting practice that doesn’t just tell you how you should hire. We come in and we do that post-merger integration. Um, so I think because of that, now that you actually have to deliver more concrete value on the, on the implementation and execution side, it makes sense to me that you would then need to hire people who might have, uh, some sort of preliminary pre-MBA background in, say, healthcare or financial services or entertainment and media, whatever the industry may be, because you might start them as a generalist, but I think you have to sort of now keep an eye towards, okay, so in a year or two, if they do start to specialize, where, where are we going to place them? Like, how are we going to sell them in to our clients so that they feel good about, um, the, you know, the money that they’re spending with us? Yeah.
[00:11:24] – Pola
And I mean, so that’s one thing I should say these MBB firms have pushed back against, that they say, no, we’re still very— we’re still equally interested in generalists, we’re just hiring more specialists. And given that they don’t publish exact figures, it’s kind of a tricky one to parse. I’m curious, Matt, having written about them before, you know, what do you make of that?
[00:11:52] – Matt
Well, I think also where business school lands in your personal trajectory, you know, we’ve already seen this job apocalypse for coming out of undergrad in the past 2, 3 years. The Master’s in Management is arguably, you know, as generalist as any of the portfolio of business school programs. The MBA, certainly the longer version, you can really backload it with a lot of electives and build, you know, areas of specialization. And I think there’s a distinction there that the early career Master’s in Management and perhaps what MBB, and we could talk about other consulting firms, are looking for, you know, What was it? Um, uh, was it, uh, Bloomberg was reporting, uh, these firms took 150 of their more senior teams to essentially train AI to replace the roles of the incoming, you know, junior associates and analysts. Um, so the further up that you go, and that’s where I think the MBA has a specific position, um, you can bring in that pre-MBA experience, much like those that are looking to move into private equity and VC, it’s very important what you’ve done before business school to be able to show, you know, certain skill sets that the MBA will then add a layer on top of.
[00:13:05] – Matt
So healthcare, supply chain, tech, clearly. And it’s interesting that MBB is taking that longer-term position. It’s clearly not just the business school. I think we can get into everything that business schools can do to open doors and ensure that you’re you were getting interviews and best preparing cases for that, you know, very lengthy process that you were describing at the beginning. I think there’s a sweet spot, you know, right now it feels like the word of the year this year, if Webster had to choose one, would be judgments. And I think maybe, you know, that’s where the MBA also has a distinct advantage. They’ve got, you know, a great business education behind them, but also bringing several years of experience and judgment into this mix. And that’s where I think, you know, beyond those verticals we’re describing, things like empathy and reading the room, you know, we talk about people’s schools, that’s such a big start and a way to get started. I even think that for so many alums that themselves recruit for the McKinsey, Bain, or BCG that they work for, there’s that immediate assessment of the person in front of them and feeling that that Booth graduate, that INSEAD graduate, the LBS or the Duke Fuqua graduate has the sort of people skills that are really gonna thrive in their organization.
[00:14:25] – Matt
So, you know, the business schools themselves can play such a big role to help to open those doors and push them wide open. Hmm.
[00:14:33] – Pola
So Maria, we’ve talked before about how early in the MBA students start networking and really doing that sort of intensive preparation for job interviews. I’m curious how many of the students you interact with, you feel are not only ready for the MBA and have that vision articulated, but are already, you feel, kind of ready for the— for consulting, for the next thing out of the MBA?
[00:15:09] – Maria
Well, I think one of the benefits of the always-on information overload world that we live in is that access to information is now kind of ubiquitous and so easy to get. And so some of these, some of these things that perhaps years ago would have been the purview of insiders, like people saying like, hey, if you want to— if you’re going to apply to McKinsey, like, you need to start doing this beforehand. I think more and more applicants going to business school now realize that the name of the game is to get started early. And so I do think that there’s been a marked increase in people wising up to the fact that if you are going to apply for one of these firms, you need to start case practice as soon as possible. The summer before you even— you know, if recruiting starts pretty early in the school year, you can’t wait for recruiting to start for you to start your case prep. For example, you need to start developing those skills and frameworks probably a few months in advance, ideally. Not to mention networking and all of that sort of more, um, unofficial part of the job hunt.
[00:16:10] – Maria
So I, I think more and more— I think a very large percentage of people now are realizing that this is how you have to play the game. Um, so yeah, I think, I think folks have realized that.
[00:16:22] – Pola
So start in kindergarten.
[00:16:25] – Maria
Yeah, pretty much. Kindergarten’s too late. You’ve missed it. You’ve missed the boat. Forget it.
[00:16:33] – Pola
Potty training and, uh, yeah, interview prep. Case studies and potty training.
[00:16:39] – Maria
That’s right. Potty training and Porter’s Five Forces together. What’s not to love?
[00:16:47] – Pola
So, we’ve already mentioned this narrative that we’ve seen in some media about a slowdown in MBB hiring, and the heads of recruiting that I spoke to all denied this. McKinsey’s lead recruiter said, you know, we’re so aware of the narrative right now around hiring slowdown, but we’re the counter-narrative. So, she said, we’re quite bullish on demand for entry-level consultants. And Bain’s executive VP for talent similarly said their recruitment target is up in double digits, and that’s on par with recent years. So, Matt, what’s going on here? Why is there this disconnect between that perception and what these firms say is actually going on?
[00:17:36] – Matt
Right. I think there’s a split, right? Firms hiring into these different levels of seniority and, you know, the armies of junior analysts that they would bring in out of undergrad, out of an early career master’s. I think when you’re looking at MBB, of course, strategy consulting, as you’re sort of moving further up the value chain, that’s where the hiring still holds up because the work has shifted from who builds the slide to who decides, you know, what it should say and get the client to act on it. And again, we’re getting back into the people skills, judgment, decision-making, and other things. I think it’s very interesting that in your colleague Mark’s article where he was looking at where McKinsey, Bain, and BCG go afterwards, it is into, you know, VP and director operating roles. So clearly there is a level of sophistication and contribution that they’re making. So it feels like, you know, two stories that one in three entry-level roles have been replaced by AI. Yeah, I think that’s the GMAC data. Accenture’s, you know, just let go of what, 11,000 people that they say they can’t reskill on AI. And at the same time, growing overall headcount.
[00:18:54] – Matt
So what’s going on? They seem to be shrinking. I think that’s at those, you know, junior levels. But clearly, you know, continuing to hire the the double-digit growth that you shared in your article, I think will play out in the class of ’26 numbers.
[00:19:12] – Pola
Yeah, and I mean, talking more about that sort of competition to get those jobs, Maria, if two-thirds of a class is applying for the MBB, how much of that do you chalk down to peer pressure? I mean, do you think it’s right for a careers counselor to maybe dissuade some students if they don’t seem cut out for it? What, what should, uh, what should career support be doing for students there?
[00:19:43] – Maria
I mean, I think, I think career support, it should be more encouraging them to cast a wider net and to realize that the odds may not be in their favor, that it’s not necessarily a judgment statement about their intelligence or their inherent worth or anything like that, but just it’s a numbers game, just like how getting into business school itself can at times come down to a numbers game, and there’s only so many seats and, and way more applicants than there are seats. Uh, it’s very similar when you’re applying to these MBB firms. So I think that the, the career counselors— and I think they’re doing a pretty good job of, of conveying to students, look, we’re going to do our best, we’re going to try our best to prep you, but just in case it doesn’t work out, here are some other firms that you might want to consider, some also very, very good firms. I mean, I think it’s Some of these, the, the Big Four type firms now, you know, equal compensation, and, or in some cases, maybe even slightly surpass compensation. Some of the other firms may— where they might pitch more is, hey, maybe we won’t make you travel quite so much.
[00:20:43] – Maria
Or I think some of these other firms are wising up to, to trying to increase their own recruiting pipelines. And then there are also niche, niche consulting firms that are emerging. You know, they’ve, they’ve certainly started taking off as, you know, to fill in these little gaps. Or frequently people will leave their big consulting firm and then start their own smaller consulting firm, and then they have hiring needs. So I think that really the biggest role of career services, on top of preparing people, is, you know, telling them, go to your consulting club meetings and, you know, start doing the stuff now if you haven’t already. The second, the second role for career services is to really say, like, look, You know, we, we can’t control it. You, you probably need to have a plan B and a plan C in your back pocket ready to go.
[00:21:29] – Pola
Definitely. Yeah, I mean, I think the other, the other thing is, uh, strategically, I guess, choosing your school. If that’s— if consulting and, and top firms are where you see yourself headed, and I think, Matt, your colleague Heidi, I think it was, wrote a piece about this and how actually attending one of those core schools where those companies really have a footprint is really valuable. What other things should applicants have in mind when they’re thinking of heading into consulting out of the MBA or business school?
[00:22:11] – Matt
I think Heidi was— 3 different numbers that tell 3 different stories, um, in, in the piece. Volume, you know, how many hires, um, which often is a reflection of class size. So you see, you know, the Columbia’s, Wharton’s, Booth’s with big numbers going in there. Um, and then there’s the rate, you know, the percentage of the class that will get into MBB and other, uh, top consulting firms. And that’s where you see Duke and Tuck and Darden and others. Understandable, you know, the case method, I think, is still great. Preparation for consultants so that they can think on their feet, in a sense, still being cold-called. And then when it’s MBB specific, as we’ve discussed today, it’s sort of the capture rate. That’s where you see that, you know, Booth and Sloan, INSEAD, of course, you place tremendous, tremendous numbers there. Part of it, I think there’s a domestic story for the US. It’s still big, big numbers when you look at what what was it, 148 people, uh, gone into MDV from, uh, from Booth last year. Um, INSEAD, it was over 220 in the class of 2025. So, you know, big, big numbers.
[00:23:18] – Matt
Um, I think that there’s a lot of, um, more regional placements, uh, in, in the US market. And we were talking earlier about, for INSEAD and London Business School, IESE, um, that they have perhaps a number of regional options, including, um, the MENA region, You know, when you look at Vision 2030 of some of these countries, the appetite for consultants and the inherent mobility in this early stage of their career. So, yeah, it’s a bright story. And Maria was talking about some of the niches. These consultants will be competing with AI and tech themselves. You know, Anthropic is heading to Harvard Business School. So, you know, I think Harvard has some of the lower numbers that are heading to MBB. Stanford, you know, don’t even get us started on that one. It’s what, 14% of the class? Because there are other attractive options that are available to them. So it’s probably healthy that MBB still has to compete. You know, they, they look for great talent. They show up at these schools. But let’s keep them on their toes and make sure that, you know, that’s, it’s, it’s a very open and accessible process. And yeah, I think that it’s going to be a very solid year.
[00:24:29] – Matt
This year, despite some of the headlines that we’ve seen.
[00:24:34] – Pola
It’s a good reminder that the MBB still has to compete. I think I was a bit skeptical when I heard recruiters from the MBB saying this to me. Oh, it’s very competitive for us. And I think, you know, but surely you guys have thousands and thousands of applications, right? You’re not really the ones competing. But I think it is very much part of the mindset there. They’re competing not only against the other top firms, but they’re competing against industries like tech and companies like Anthropic increasingly, right? So, so, so, so that is at least a little bit of comfort or silver lining there for applicants. And just, just thinking about, you know, parallels between the MBA application process, which we talk about a lot on this podcast, and the process of then going and applying for jobs. Maria, how much overlap is there? Uh, you know, what, what are some useful sort of crossover skills you can take from having done your MBA application when you then go and apply for that MBB job?
[00:25:47] – Maria
I mean, I think the most directly applicable piece is when you are interviewing for an MBA program, there’s a— there’s frequently this, um, these sort of like, tell me about a time you led a team, tell me about a time you overcame discord or a disagreement with others, um, situ— you know, sort of these situational interview questions. I think that’s one of the only most directly applicable, uh, pieces. Although I think in your article you actually pointed out that I think McKinsey is, is moving away from that sort of more typical tell me about a time, and they’re actually adjusting to, uh, more of a, of a, of an exercise that helps see how would you handle a perhaps challenging client interaction, uh, but, and so we can talk about that in a second. But, um, aside from that, like, I think the networking piece that is a very informal part of the MBA application process— it never really, you know, it’s, it’s sort of this informal piece of it— that part can be very useful, um, in terms of similarly doing that kind of networking with people who work at different consulting firms. But to the extent that a lot of the consulting decision does come down to your ability to do the cases, that’s really not— I don’t know.
[00:27:00] – Maria
I think it’s kind of a newish or a different— it’s certainly a different skill.
[00:27:08] – Pola
And I’m glad you mentioned, yeah, that things, the sort of application process for these big companies is changing. And AI is largely to blame, I guess. But blame, I mean, you know, maybe, maybe some of these changes are positive if hopefully it’s allowing for more candidates, a greater diversity of candidates from more schools to apply. But, but, you know, that’s, that’s one of the big changes. And obviously hiring timelines growing a little bit longer is another one. Any, any other things that you would like to highlight, Matt, in terms of what’s changing and how that could potentially affect students coming out of B-School looking for jobs in consulting?
[00:28:05] – Matt
I think we’ve talked about a number of schools that themselves have privileged relationships with the top consulting firms, and whether schools are organizing the consulting boot camp, just getting people ready. You talked about an extended timeline. The schools know what those timelines are, and I think, you know, really ensuring that you’re taking the necessary steps. You’d mentioned earlier, Maria, joining the consulting club. Well, I mean, really joining and engaging, because I think, you know, those are great opportunities in terms of what you can pick up, both from networking, but just being very astute about how all of this will take place. And the bottom line is they’re looking for great candidates that are going to have something insightful and worthwhile to say in front of a client and come up with good results. I think, you know, business schools continue to be a phenomenal breeding ground for that. It just, it gives you that competitive edge. If you start to think about how you open doors, AI is screening out almost everybody’s, uh, resume, uh, these days. You know, you can send out thousands and, and just get a couple of responses if you’re lucky.
[00:29:17] – Matt
Um, and you just realize within this whole framework of business schools and the MBA in particular, um, it’s opening those doors, it’s making those connections, get— getting you noticed, getting you ready, getting you prepared. I always love, as a heartwarming final note, I love when, you know, we talk to students. I can remember a month a bunch of Yale students that were all prepping one another for, I think it was McKinsey cases, aware that there was a finite number of places available, you know, the 60% figure that you came up with earlier, all applying for the job. But they said, we knew that, but, you know, we were all rooting for each other and we’re all helping each other to perform as best, you know, we could during that, because if one of us got the offer, that was a win for all of us. So, you know, there’s, it’s great to hear that level of support and camaraderie. And, you know, that I think business school remains a really strong path into MBB and the other top consulting firms.
[00:30:17] – Maria
And I’ll just add very quickly that I think the schools are also adapting their curricula to account for this new reality. So, for example, Tuck has introduced a sprint course, which is like a mini course called AI in Consulting. Consulting, uh, that is just for people recruiting into consulting, and how can I use AI tools in that, in that field? And I, and I think, um, like UNC Kenan-Flagler, for example, they’ve kind of reorganized how their core curriculum is executed in order to account for the fact that, okay, we know that certain people following certain paths are going to have certain recruiting, uh, heavy periods of recruiting. So let’s kind of reorient, um, because I think in the past some schools could just say like, well, here’s our curriculum and here’s the core, and the core is when it is. And, you know, now they’re realizing that they, they may need to cater understandably to students needing that extra time during the recruiting season. So, um, there are countless examples like that, but I think the schools are in fact, you know, the business schools are themselves a business, and I think they understand that their clients, which are simultaneously the students and the recruiters, um, you know, have certain needs, and they are indeed adapting.
[00:31:26] – Maria
So that’s another, another good reason for, for the MBA to, to still be a a primary way to get into one of these jobs.
[00:31:35] – Pola
Well, there you go. Lots, lots of upsides and positive notes to end on. So we are done for today, but please come back next week if you liked our discussion today and check out poetsandquants.com to listen to the latest episodes of Business Casual. Thank you so much to my co-hosts, Maria, and our, uh, co-host of the week, Matt. And thank you everyone for listening.
