Six Tricks MBA Admissions Consultants Use To Make the Sale And Get Your Money
Maria |
January 2, 2022

TL;DR: MBA Admissions Consultants know that you’re in an emotionally-fragile (or ego-driven) place, and sadly, many (not all! but many!) of them EXPLOIT that to make money.

Expensive admissions consultants — in particular, the ones from the larger firms — often have shady sales techniques to convince you to spend a ton of money on them. The most common technique is to either flatter the candidate with unrealistic promises (and then use future sessions to bring expectations down), or to tear the candidate down and make them feel so worthless that by the end of the call, the candidate is practically begging for the privilege of paying several thousand dollars for this guidance. There are other techniques I mention below, but these two are the one’s you’re most likely to encounter!

The saying “you get what you pay for” certainly applies in many cases.

However, it does NOT necessarily apply to hiring an admissions consultant. This is vitally important to know, in case you look at their high fees and are left wondering: “Is a traditional admissions consultant worth it?”

Each year, I hear from happy ApplicantLab users who share that they had also shelled out thousands of dollars to work with an admissions consultant — either during the same year, or during a previous, unsuccessful year (and that the Lab was just as good, if not better, than the consultant)!

I have a standard reply to those emails, and it starts with: “I’m sorry to hear this; I wish I could say that this is a rare experience, but in fact many people regret paying the high prices that many consultants charge.”

I think a big reason for these negative experiences is that some admissions consultants often have a “sales playbook” – schemes that, similar to car salesmen, will tell you just about anything if it will convince you to hire them.

After years of collecting horror stories from my own clients, below are the emotionally-exploitative techniques they use to get you to pay up.

Tricks Admissions Consultants Play To Make The Sale:

The “puffing you up” technique

Everyone, when they first start applying to schools, dreams of getting an acceptance letter from Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, etc.

The honest truth is that most (80%, 90% or more) will not get accepted.

The even MORE honest truth is that many of them never had a shot in the first place.

However, this does not stop some admissions consultants from using obvious flattery to puff up you ego and thus close the sale.

They might tell you during the “consultation call” that you DEFINITELY have a chance of getting in to a top school! They might even use words like “interesting” or “compelling” to describe you.

You’re so excited after this call! Here is a consultant that “believes in you” and “gets” you! Sure, other people have expressed some doubts (though others rarely want to risk getting on our bad sides, so acquaintances usually keep their negative predictions to themselves), but THIS person CLEARLY sees how remarkable you are!

And, maybe you are remarkable! If you truly are that remarkable, you probably don’t need an admissions consultant since your profile will get you in on its own.

What is far, far more likely is that they are trying to close the sale with you.

Then, after your deposit is paid…they will start to steer you in another direction:

“Hey, I know that you’re excited about EliteSchool, and when we first spoke, based on the teeny amount of information I had about you, I thought you had a good shot. But now that I’ve gotten to know you a bit better, how about if we move EliteSchool to your list of ‘REACH’ schools, and add in some ‘BETTER FITS’?”

*Note that in this case, a “better fit” probably = “a school they think you have a strong chance of getting accepted to, and thus you won’t damage any of those “success metrics” they love to manipulate / publish.

They are counting on the fact that you’re going to spend several hours with them on the phone / e-mail over the next few weeks / months, and in that time, they can win your trust and start to talk you down a bit. 

They might also use phrases like “…this year is turning out to be way more competitive than usual” or “…a lot more people with your background are applying than what I predicted” or “…I just heard that EliteSchool has started putting a lot more emphasis on [something you don’t have], so while in the PAST you probably would have gotten in, it might not happen this year.”

All of these sorts of phrases above help them convince you that, when they implied that you were TOTALLY a strong candidate for that elite school at first (before you paid them)… well, things are “different” this year, so it’s NOT that they were fake during the consultation… it’s that the world has changed! And you can’t blame them for that, right?

**I should also note that sometimes, the flattery folks have even less of a conscience. They will help someone apply to a school that they know is never going to happen.. and then, when the person doesn’t get in? They ghost them. Stop replying to emails. Will have an “assistant” reply to tell you that they are sorry that you are disappointed but that ConsultantName is not currently available and please refer to the terms & conditions about no refunds and how researching suitable schools is your responsibility. These folks just “take the money and run” and don’t feel bad about it for a second!

The “dragging you down” technique

Other firms have the exact opposite sale technique. They will try to convince you during the “consultation” call that your profile is very weak, or at best, marginal…

…and so the ONLY hope you possibly have would be if you are lucky enough to get to hire them (you see, they are quickly filling up and might not have availability if you wait!). Then, MAYBE, you have a shot of getting in, but you’ll need their golden, magical guidance to get even close.

I can’t decide which technique I hate most: this one (since it preys on an applicant’s insecurities) or the puffing-up one (since it preys on an applicant’s ego).

This sales pitch works better on more mature, self-aware candidates – people who are likely to have started doing their research and realize how tough this process can be. Also, anecdotally, I suspect that this technique is more often used with female clients, preying on the whole “impostor syndrome” thing. UGH.

Anyway, like that emotionally-abusive ex who tried to convince you that you couldn’t possibly live without them, these consultants will find and exaggerate flaws in your profile. They will make mountains out of molehills to scare you and convince you that THEY are the life-line you need.

Examples:

  • My favorite example was a candidate who was flat-out told that he would MAYBE get into a top 15 – 20 school, IF they were lucky and IF they paid this firm a LOT of money.
    • This person used ApplicantLab and ended up getting the Reliance Fellowship (a merit-based full ride) to Stanford GSB!
  • People who work in fields like the arts / media being told that their background is too non-traditional and thus they are in big trouble re: admissions.
    • The truth is, someone who has held a leadership role in an arts / media organization probably has amazing lessons to share with classmates!
  • A more recent example, a consultant from another firm told one of my clients to “not even bother” talking about their family business, since “any family business making less than $200 million / year in revenue will not be impressive enough to mention for the adcom at any M7 school”
    • LOL. Tell that to the many clients I’ve worked with from family businesses waaaay smaller than $200M/year who went to top schools. If this were true, then there would be virtually no one in any program from family businesses! And yet, several top schools have entire classes and conferences devoted to family businesses!

I said above that I’m not sure which one I hate more – while the flattery angle makes my stomach churn, at the end of the day, it’s someone’s inflated ego that makes them sign up. THIS technique, on the other hand, feasts on fear. It succeeds by destabilizing, sowing doubt, and deflating people. So I think this one is worse.

The “manipulated success rate” technique

The firms that publish too-good-to-be-true “success” metrics primarily do this in two ways:

  1. They convince the client that some “safe” schools are in fact “target” schools
    • That way, when the person applies and gets in, and the bold headline of “9X% of our clients get into at least one target school!” can be published
  2. In order for #1 to work, candidates need to be open to applying to some safer schools. If someone seems unwilling / inflexible, they simply won’t work with you!

For example, a firm might say “Look, we’d be happy to help you with your application to EliteSchool, but we’ll only do so if you also apply to SaferSchool as well”. I actually had a former client who was flat-out told that a firm would not bother to work with him for applications to top fifteen schools, but they’d be happy to help with schools ranked 16 – 30!

At this point, firms are saving time by having an “intake” or “interest” form prior to setting up the “consultation call.” This is to make sure that they are not going to waste their time on the sales call.

If the person’s “intake” form shows a blah college, blah employers, and blah impact within those employers… BUT the person writes that the ONLY school they are considering is Stanford? Guess what! That person will probably NOT EVEN GET a “consultation call” appointment!

To be fair, it’s not just admissions consultants that do this – even in the under-rated movie Doctor Strange, he has a confrontational conversation with a guy who had wanted to be his patient… but whose case seemed so impossible that Dr. Strange didn’t even bother (boo! I can’t find a link to the clip, but if you’ve seen the movie you know what I mean!)

The “exploding offer during a so-called ‘consultation call’” technique

This one is quick and easy to explain: “Usually, we charge $4,800 for a one-school package, BUT I JUST got permission from my manager for a LIMITED TIME special that IF you sign up with us RIGHT NOW, I can give you a discount of $X! But I don’t know how much longer my manager will let me do this, so you’d better sign up now!”

Girl, please.

While it’s unrealistic to expect that an admissions consultant would care for you the way a family member would… it’s perfectly reasonable to expect that they want what is best (or at least, “OK”) for you.

I bet if you reached out a week later, saying that you had your bank account / credit card in hand, but would only sign up if that limited-time offer were still good… I’m pretty sure that they’d (perhaps after checking with a “manager” of course) still accept it. And if they wouldn’t, then you don’t want to work with such pushy people anyway.

(The “expiring discount” technique is a close cousin of the “we are filling up fast / our top consultants are almost all booked!” technique.)

The “bait and switch” consultation sales technique

First of all, many firms’  “FREE 30 / 15 minute consultation!” is a sales call in disguise.

The person will walk a fine line between throwing out some crumbs of information…just enough to try to hook you. But they will usually be pretty vague, or “of course I’d need to know a lot more about you – that’s what our 2 hour ‘discovery introduction call’ is for!”

But you already knew this, right?

What many people don’t know, however, is that the super-smart, friendly, and caring person you did your consultation with is often NOT the same person who will be your consultant.

I know this because a few years ago, a large consulting firm offered to buy ApplicantLab and they showed me “behind the curtain” of their operations and explained that many other firms work the same way.

ONE consultant (or sometimes not even a full consultant, just a well-trained salesperson) will do the intro call and make you fall in love with them. Starry-eyed, you pay the deposit. Then… you’re introduced to “Someone Else”, who’s the person who will be actually working with you.

This technique has different forms:

  • The deeply-experienced consultant does the sales call, then pawns you off to a far less experienced person.
  • A not-very-experienced consultant (but professional salesperson) does the call – their initial questions get to the heart of “which buttons are the best ones to push?”, and then they’ll push those buttons to get you to sign up.
  • A firm will say that you will “probably” get to work with the same person who did your call… but then, wouldn’t you know it, soon after you pay your deposit: darn! That consultant you liked *just* got fully booked! Too bad! However, we have this other person on our team…

The “exaggerated aura of expertise” technique

This is another technique that makes me want to vomit.

A consultant’s webpage will say something that sure SOUNDS good, like: “Former staff member, EliteSchool admissions!” or even just “Former staff, EliteSchool”.

What they don’t tell you is that they were simply a support-staff member (e.g. working in operations, or in “recruitment” [sales]), OR they were simply a 2nd-year student doing routine admissions interviews (but with limited impact on the admissions decisions themselves) or they were simply a career center volunteer, helping out the first-year students, etc.

They will often not point out that frequently, admissions offices will hire the spouses of foreign students, simply because they need a job, not because they have massive expertise / talent. Or sometimes (of course not always), the students who work in admissions right after graduation do so because they were unable to get another job (shhhh!)

Or a consultant will try to confer expertise via logos of publications they have been “featured” in – of course, not all of them will tell you that they are often paying for – er, “sponsoring” — those articles.

**For the record, I pay nothing to be a co-host of the Poets and Quants podcast! This is because John is SUPER nice!

One that makes me especially sick is when consulting firms make it seem that they are being “endorsed” by a certain organization, when really, all they did was make a large donation or pay a sponsorship fee.  

Why the larger MBA admissions consulting firms tend to be more guilty of this than the smaller firms / solo practitioners

Of course, not all firms do things like this! I have found, in particular, that the larger MBA admissions consulting firms tend to rely upon more “strong arm” / emotional tactics like this.

I think that this is because some of the larger firms will staff up each year with a small army of MBA Admissions Consultants — many of which are simply recent graduates of MBA programs, but who are not necessarily admissions experts!!! — and so they are trying to get the maximum number of clients possible. Because: they know that they can keep expanding their work force as needed. And since each new client = roughly 50% (!!!) of the revenue going directly to the firm, the motivation to sign up a lot of clients is pretty intense!

Smaller MBA admissions consulting firms — e.g., the boutique firms, or expert solo practioners — do NOT usually use these sales techniques. Why? Because they each have a natural limit on the number of clients they can serve each year.

Therefore, it’s in their best interest to fill their available spaces thoughtfully. And because of THAT, the “free 30 minute consultation” is more likely to be a genuine exploration of whether or not you’d be a good fit for each other — that is, are your personalities a match? Can they support you in what you want to do? (Note that many of these elite solo practitioners will often refer potential clients to each other, if they feel that someone else in their network might be better able to help!)

Of course — the boutique firms / solo practioners do NOT have a “Sales Team” trying to close deals, so any free consultations that you do with them takes time out of their day. So please, if you’re going to request a conversation with a smaller / solo firm, PLEASE only reach out if you are serious about potentially hiring them. Please check their pricing in advance and make sure that you’re comfortable potentially paying it, should they be a good match for you, because they don’t have the revenues of the big firms, they don’t have a “sales team”, etc. and so being respectful of their time is, at a minimum, a great way to get some good karma! 🙂

Have YOU encountered any of the sales techniques I mention above? Are there any that I missed? You won’t find any of them with ApplicantLab — I don’t turn anyone away (which is honestly sometimes a bad thing, when someone with unrealistic / immature expectations signs up), but I also don’t filter people out based on whether or not I think they have the $$$ to pay me, or whether or not I think they’ll add to my “success stories” list! But the good news is: no sales pitch!

Admissions Chances | General | MBA Admissions Advice
Six Tricks MBA Admissions Consultants Use To Make the Sale And Get Your Money
Maria |
January 2, 2022

Full Episode Transcript:

John Byrne: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. This is John Byrne with Poets and Quants. Welcome to Business Casual, our weekly podcast. We want to talk about international students. Schools are now reporting that a good number of their international recruits who were admitted to programs this fall haven’t been able to show up or have changed their mind.

At the University of Illinois, the school, the Gies College of Businesses, lost about 200 international students in its Master of Finance and Master of Business Analytics programs causing a $7 million hit. To their budget at UC Davis Graduate School of Management, 40 students didn’t show up who were admitted, and that’s resulting in two and a half to $3 million hit on their budget this year.

Both of these things have occurred before the announcement of a hundred thousand dollars tax on H one B Visa. Which will make it more difficult for many employers [00:01:00] to hire international students and keep them in the US for an extended period of time. And we’re getting the new class reports of the, of the new cohorts of students who’ve arrived on campus in the fall of this year.

And Carnegie Mellon is. Down 30% for their international cohort over the past two years. UCLA Anderson School is down 25% over the past two years, and schools are preparing for the worst because of the H one B Visa decision which could affect future employment. Caroline and Maria, my cohosts are in the market helping people get into the best schools in the world.

And Caroline, what do you think?

Caroline Diarte-Edwards: Yeah, definitely seeing concern among international candidates and people holding off on applying for the US schools. So it’s really a shame. I think the international schools, particularly the schools like Inea and London Business School and the other top.[00:02:00]

International European programs will benefit, they’ll get talent that might otherwise have come to the us, which is great for those schools. And I’m very fond of those schools, but it is sad as from the US perspective for sure. On the other hand, you could also take the perspective that.

If you do have options for your career post MBA that don’t require that you absolutely have to stay in the US as an international candidate, then now could be a very good time to apply, right? Because definitely application volume will be down and schools will be perhaps. More open to candidates that might otherwise have been waitlisted or rejected in the past.

For some candidates, this is actually a fantastic opportunity to get into a top school, but from, for, at least from the school’s perspective, it is a shame because, I’ve experienced firsthand the value of a very internationally diverse classroom and the value that brings with a [00:03:00] diversity of perspectives that enriches the learning experience so much for everybody.

Enriches the debate and bring so much to the academic experience as well as the the network and the social experience. So it’s everybody’s loss, right?

John Byrne: Very true.

Caroline Diarte-Edwards: And I think it’s a very myopic perspective that the US government takes that. There needs to be a more of a refocus at US educational institutions on the domestic market because those international applicants bring a lot to the domestic students in enriching their learning and enriching their network.

Of course bring a huge value to the US economy when they stay. So there are very impressive statistics on the value of immigrants to the US economy. So Indian immigrants, for example, are only about one and a half percent of the US population, but they have founded to date about 8% of all the tech startups in the us.[00:04:00]

And for sure some of that top talent from India will now not come to the us. They will go to perhaps they will stay at the great schools that we’ve talked about in India, or they will go to other international schools. So for sure it will be a loss to the us learning experience and to the US economy.

John Byrne: Maria, you run applicant lab which is a platform that helps applicants get into highly selective schools. And many of the people who use your product are international students. What are you seeing?

Maria Wich-Vila: Everything Caroline is saying concern is think a delicate way to put it.

And I think it’s because as the more affordable provider in the market, I tend to get the applicants who maybe they don’t have the family business to fall back on. Maybe they don’t have, large sources of income elsewhere in their lives. And so I think the concern is very real and very merited, right?

I can’t. In good faith, tell someone, if they [00:05:00] really start, sit down and do the math and start to do, run the numbers, if they just assume that things are going to stay as is. And this is the big caveat that I’m, I want to get to in a second, but if we assume that things stay as is and if someone really is from a lower income tier from Nepal or India or some of the other countries that I work with, yeah, maybe sit down and do that math and think about, okay, if I do have to come back to Nepal afterwards, how will I pay back that loan? There, there is though some good news. Even if we assume that things stay status quo, which I hope, and I’m pretty, I’m I think it’s, I’m cautiously optimistic that they won’t.

But there are other markets as well. So I’ve had a lot of candidates, or former clients, I should say, graduate from business school, not be able to get jobs in certain in countries and then. Being able to move to Dubai. Dubai for some reason, has started attracting a ton of candidates, primarily from South Asia but from other parts of the world who might be having trouble getting some of those work permits.

You could do worse than live in, Dubai’s not perfect, but [00:06:00] you could also do worse than live in Dubai, right? The salaries are pretty high. The standard of living, if you have a white collar job there is, it’s not the worst outcome. So it’s not I can’t stay in the us. That’s it.

There’s no other it’s not a binary of, it’s either the US or it’s nothing. And then I think the second point is I, we’ve just seen. So many things, let’s take something from a different facet of policy. The tariffs, right? The tariffs were announced and the markets went crazy, and in the months that have followed, oh, actually, here’s the tariff, but this one company, their products aren’t gonna be subject to the tariff.

And then there’s this other company that maybe they’re not gonna have to pay the same tariff. And I can’t help but wonder if some of these. Some of these very large companies that are getting tariff exemptions, their ability to lobby for. The H one B, maybe lowering of the H one B fee. If they’ve been able to successfully lobby tariffs, they might be success, able to successfully lobby against these, true, these [00:07:00] visa fees.

And a lot of these big companies, these big tech companies are in fact some of the largest employers of post MBA talent in the us. So I am cautiously optimistic that. This could be, hopefully right now it’s the big, the flash and storm and the, the making, the big splash, right?

Everything’s about showmanship and making the big splash. And maybe in the aftermath of the storm, that initial PR media storm, maybe the reality will start to calm down a little bit. Yeah, the other good news is that if you’re applying now, that means you would enroll in 2026. You would, if it, if you’re talking about the US two year program, you would graduate in 2028.

At that point, who knows what might happen. I like to think that what we have seen so far in terms of the Visa policies, hopefully. Roughly the floor about as bad as it can get. I think if they start implementing a similar thing to OPT, that could be the same thing. But if we just assume that okay, right now what’s been announced is that these foreign students all have to do, you can’t stay here, you have to [00:08:00] go someplace else.

It, we assume that’s like the initial negotiating position. It’s just gonna chip, it’s just gonna get, it’s got nowhere else to go. It’s even worse. So we’ve, we now have two and a half years roughly until. People applying now would have to really implement, or be really affected by this in a.

In a pragmatic and tangible way. And so that’s why I’m hoping that the little chipping away and the chipping away things will start to get a little bit better and a little bit better and a little bit better like we’ve seen with other facets of policy. Didn’t like a bunch of the CDC employees that were all fired under Doge didn’t more than half of them I think were recently rehired.

Yes. Back again true. Whatever you think of the policy, it seems like some of the policies are. Being slowly walked back. And so I think if you. If you’ve got an adventurous spirit, I, and by the way, if you apply now, sorry. I know I keep going, but I like, if you apply now, let’s say you get accepted, you don’t have to show up until August of 2026.

So that will give you [00:09:00] time, like definitely. Apply now and see what happens between now and August of 2026 to make the decision to not apply now, because you’re rightfully scared. I’m not blaming anyone, but to not apply now, maybe by maybe six months from now he’ll be like, ha, just kidding. I’m doubling the number of H one Bs.

Yeah, we have no idea what’s gonna happen. So things are So give yourself that optionality.

John Byrne: Yeah. And things are so uncertain that could very well happen because, one day at tariffs are on one country the next day they’re not one day they’re pausing the ab the interviews for student visas, the.

Say they’re not there’s litigation all over the place, challenging many of the presidential actions that have been taken that have put them in limbo despite all the headlines. So it’s, it, there’s more uncertainty than there is certainty about any of these things. And as you point out, you, if you [00:10:00] did apply this year, the odds are gonna be in your favor if you’re an international student, frankly, because there is no question.

That international applicant volume will be down at all the top schools in the us, which means that to maintain some semblance of a global class. Admission directors are going to have to dig a little bit deeper into their international applicant pools to select candidates. In a way, if you play the long term and in the BA, in, in many graduate degrees or long term bet, I think you’re gonna be.

Oddly better off. And it may even be that the schools will really even go out of their way to help international students in ways that they haven’t in the past because of these actions in Washington. And what do I mean by that? Just a more welcoming reception than the already welcoming reception you would get hiring immigration lawyers and people that can help you.

If in fact there is a [00:11:00] challenge of one kind or another. I think the takeaway is not to be discouraged and throw up your hands to say, ah, I always dreamed of coming to the United States and getting an MBA or a graduate degree in business. Use this as an opportunity to actually increase your odds of getting into a better school with the understanding that when you get out there, probably most likely be an administration change and a change in these policies if they even get completely adopted as Maria points out.

Wouldn’t you think that’s the best strategy, Caroline?

Caroline Diarte-Edwards: Yes, I agree. I think that it’s good to take a longer term perspective because it is such a long timeline, right? If you’re applying to a top two year program as you say, you’re gonna be coming out of the program at the end of the Trump presidency and things may look very different.

And Maria rightly points out that. Everything is very volatile, right? So one thing gets announced and the next week it [00:12:00] gets rolled back, right? They’ve done so many things where they’ve realized, oh, actually that was a really bad idea after all. So

They’ve changed things. So things may not it might, may not turn out to be as bad as we fear.

And then I would also encourage candidates. To apply to the US schools, but why not hedge your bets and apply to an international program as well? Agreed in a time of uncertainty. As Maria said, create options for yourself. And so I would encourage candidates to apply to the top US programs, but also apply to top international programs as well and see what offers you get.

And then you can make a decision. As Maria said, it will be closer to the time when you would be starting the program and there may be more clarity about the situation in the US and what your options are in international markets as well. So I think that given the current circumstances, a good strategy is to hedge your bets and apply more widely than you might [00:13:00] have otherwise done.

John Byrne: Plan Bs are good. Let me just say business schools in the US have for years advised international students that those should have a plan B in the event that they can’t get with a US company. The other thing to, to keep in mind incidentally, in terms of MBA employment is that most of the companies.

That basically employ the lion’s share of MBAs are all global concerns. So you can be hired here and if there’s any challenge in getting you employed here in the us you can simply start in an office outside the United States with a hope of coming back when things clear up. So that is also another important thing to keep in mind.

And I’ll just say this. Despite whatever messaging you’re reading in your local newspapers or on your streaming platforms or television stations about how immigrants may not be welcome in the us that’s not true at all. Universities are diverse places. Welcoming. [00:14:00] Embracing loving the diversity of their students and particularly those from different cultures and backgrounds that enrich the educational experience.

There is no Dean that I’ve ever encountered who said they want fewer international students. It’s the exact opposite. They’re putting out message after message, telling people that they’re still welcome and wanted. Needed in the classroom. Now, Maria, in the past we’ve seen applicants who try to say, okay, can I time my application and my enrollment in a program to what I think might be the next recession?

And we know that in recessions applications go way. In part because some people lose the opportunity to gain advancement in a recession. Some people get unemployed. Some people just realize, hey, a recession is a good time to take a time out and get a new educational credential, which may allow me to do things I otherwise can’t do.[00:15:00]

But it’s almost impossible to time a recession and I’m imagining it’s impossible to time what’s going on here now.

Maria Wich-Vila: Yeah. I mean if we could all time, when everyone’s been talking about a stock market crash that to, not to bring another disparate topic in, but like everyone’s been talking about, it’s a bubble.

It’s a bubble. I’ve been hearing ’cause a bubble for a year and a half. True. Yeah, you can’t time or ask, for example, ask the people who enrolled in business school, like who got into business school in 2020. Like there’s always gonna be these external shocks. We can try to predict a recession, but who knows if it’s going to happen?

Who knows if there’s going to be some sort of virus or the opposite of a virus. Maybe there’ll be a virus that helps us all live healthily forever. Who knows? There’s so much uncertainty out there that who knows what to do. So I think. I think yeah, have that optionality. I think go ahead and apply.

Now if there is a recession though, which everyone seems to think is coming at some point, at that point, it’s going to be harder to get accepted. And as Caroline has pointed out, so rightfully, if other international, high quality international students are [00:16:00] spooked by the current H one B talk, now is your chance.

International candidate. Jump in there, shoot your shot like you might be able to get into a school, assuming of course that you’re qualified, but. You might have a lot less competition now than you normally will, so this could be a golden opportunity for you. And one final as one thing that I wanted to point out was that I was thinking, okay, Maria, let’s say that, you just said that maybe there’s gonna be walk back of some of these and there’s gonna be, maybe he’s gonna change.

But even if there isn’t a change, right? Let’s think about this. The companies themselves are gonna have, and you started to alluded to this John, when you mentioned that a lot of them are global concerns. They’re gonna have now a two year window in which to say. Okay. We know that we’re not gonna keep these people in the states, so let’s open a huge office in Vancouver.

Let’s open a brand, an enormous new office in Toronto. Whatever that is. Because I was thinking back to over the summer when it looked like maybe a bunch of international students wouldn’t be able to get any student visa at all. And I know that some of the business schools we’re looking [00:17:00] at, do we rent out some space in Toronto and do Zoom classes?

We do a hybrid. What we did during COVID. I’ve heard that. I think Rice, I was actually having dinner last night with a dear friend who was, say he’s from Texas and he was saying that Rice has some sort of a campus in Paris and that they are leaning really heavily on their global campuses around the world to still be able to service these students who had gotten accepted.

So things like that, like if. Even if our sort of my very cautious and perhaps irrational optimism turns out to not be true, let’s say the things get, the OPT is banished and all, everyone is banished and it’s the worst case scenario. Again, there’s gonna be two and a half years for these companies. To quickly find, okay, fine, we’re gonna open up an office in Mexico City and we’re gonna pay people really well and we’re gonna what?

Whatever that is. ’cause they’re, the companies are still gonna want the talent, right? Just because the political administration doesn’t want the global talent in the country. That doesn’t mean that the country’s employers don’t want that talent. They [00:18:00] want that talent, they want that intellect, they want that energy and that drive to make their companies better and to make more money.

So they have a very strong incentive to not only be lobbying for these. Visa changes to go away, but if they don’t go away, they have a very strong incentive to come up with some way to provide, to provide those incomes and to provide those perks and some sort of a compromise type of situation.

So again I think if you’re applying now, if you’re going in with eyes wide open, shoot your shot. That’s my, I would absolutely tell people to to try that.

John Byrne: Yeah, I totally agree. And, generally this is my rule of thumb and Maria and Caroline, you may or may not agree with this, at the top MBA programs, they’re so selective that the people who apply to them generally are very self-selecting group.

So I always say that roughly 80% of the school’s applicant pool. Is qualified to actually get accepted, get in, do [00:19:00] well, and land a good job. And yet we know that at Stanford, the acceptance rate is 6%, that Harvard is 12 Wharton and Columbia is, a little under 20 or so. So there are a lot of really good candidates who aren’t getting in.

Which leads me to this, if you’re an international student who thinks okay, so these US schools just might dip a little more into the domestic pool to make up for the offset of international candidates. As it turns out, there is a little notice. Clause in the big beautiful tax bill that was passed here under Trump that places severe limits on federal loans for graduate students.

Now, the current grad plus loan program allows students to borrow up to the cost of their graduate programs. That comes to an end in July of next year. After that, grad students borrowing will literally be capped at [00:20:00] 20,500 bucks a year with a lifetime graduate school loan limit of a hundred thousand. That’s a big deal because, at the top MBA programs it’s not on typical.

For a student to borrow over a hundred thousand dollars easily. And so these caps are also going to affect domestic enrollment. So again, that, that contributes to your ability as an international candidate to get in both. The likely decline in competition not only from internationals but also from domestic students here, interestingly enough, that Bill, which passed has different limits for a professional graduate degree, but the bill basically says that only med school and law school qualify as professional degrees and not business school.

That’s another wacky thing that’s happened that will affect. Domestic enrollment as well. So I, I side with Maria and [00:21:00] Caroline to me the advice is, look long term. Don’t be affected overly affected by the change in policies in the US or the climate here. Understand that if you apply now and you matriculate next year and you graduate in two years after that you’re gonna be facing probably a very different environment.

Also understand the odds are in your in your favor, in getting into a highly selective, really good program in this coming year. And know that, while people too often calculate the value of an MBA based on short term variables, like what’s my starting salary gonna be? What is my sign-on bonus?

The truth is the MBA has enduring value over your lifetime. So it rewards you over your entire career and not just for the first or second years. And you can’t go wrong by graduating into a network of helpful and supportive people from a great school and [00:22:00] receiving a great education. So I think bottom line, we’re telling you apply.

Don’t get convinced by your colleagues or anyone else that this is a bad time to come to the us. Opportunity. Some of the best opportunity come comes when people perceive there to be significant challenges. And I think this is really true with business school. We hope we convinced you to come and try and hedge your batts too, as Caroline noted.

I think that’s really super important to have a plan B when you apply and toss a bunch of apps to the European schools which have excellent superb world class MBA programs and real international cohorts. 90% of the students not from the countries where the schools reside. Toss a bunch of them in your mix for your target schools to give you these different options at the end of the day.

This is John Byrne with Poets and Quants. Thanks for listening.

Maria

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