Exploring the value of a Master’s in Management (MiM) in today’s climate, Pola Lem leads an insightful discussion with Maria Wich-Vila and Michelle Belden. With St. Gallen topping the Financial Times MiM rankings for the 15th time, the conversation delves into what makes these programs appealing for early-career professionals and how they compare to the traditional MBA. The MiM is tailored for those stepping directly out of undergrad or with minimal work experience, offering a more affordable path into careers in consulting and finance without the commitment of stepping away from the workforce entirely, as is often required for an MBA.
The episode also examines the dynamic shifts in this year’s FT rankings. Michelle notes how Nova School of Business and Economics in Portugal has achieved its highest position ever, while renowned institutions like INSEAD and HEC Paris experienced a slide. This dramatic reshuffling emphasizes the evolving landscape of business education and the increasing recognition of programs outside traditional Western hubs, such as Rabat Business School in Morocco, which made a remarkable leap into the top 10.
Maria elaborates on the Financial Times’ comprehensive approach in assessing these programs. By focusing on the “value for money” metric through factors like salary increase versus program cost and adapting graduate salaries for purchasing power parity, these rankings highlight how programs in regions with lower living costs can rise swiftly. This approach underscores how MBA candidates seeking cost-effective, impactful education might consider non-traditional geographies, reflecting a broader trend toward diversifying educational and career paths.
Episode Transcript
Note: This transcript was generated by AI and may contain minor inaccuracies.
[00:00:00] – Pola
St. Gallen just won the Financial Times Master in Management ranking for the 15th time in 16 years. This is a tiny Swiss school with just 58 students this year, and somehow it’s the most dominant program in the category. But today isn’t really about one school’s winning streak. There’s a bigger question behind this, which is, is the Master’s in Management actually worth it right now, and if so, where should you be looking? So let’s get into it. I’m Pola Lem from Poets& Quants, and joining me are Maria Wich-Vila of ApplicantLab, and stepping in for Caroline today, we have Michelle Belden at Fortuna Admissions. Welcome back.
[00:00:46] – Michelle
Thank you so much for having me. Glad to be back.
[00:00:49] – Pola
So Michelle, We’ll start off with you. So in 30 seconds, just a really basic question. Remind us who a Master in Management is intended for, and also how do the costs stack up against those of an MBA?
[00:01:07] – Michelle
Right. So the Master in Management program is really focused on those early career candidates, right? So right out of undergrad, maybe just 1, 2 years of some work experience. So it’s really focused on that group, which is really looking to get the breadth of the education and to jump into a program that I think is really gonna set them up for success to get those jobs in consulting, in finance, right? And they, you know, really are going to have the value of the MIM programs. And really the international aspect, as we’ll talk about with this rankings, is really where the focus is as well. And so I think people that have that clarity and those goals, this is a great, you know, opportunity to look into all the different programs. Again, what are your goals? you know, what are you set, but really the early career and whether you’ve had the undergrad background of business or not, that’s what this is really going to give you that education about.
[00:02:04] – Pola
And it’s a little bit less expensive than an MBA from what I can see. I mean, it’s still a hefty, a hefty fee that you’ve got to fork out.
[00:02:13] – Michelle
I think it’s 2 things, right? It’s definitely, it is a less cost out of your pocketbook, but it’s also not stepping away when you go to the full-time programs from a career that you are currently on to step away, you know, take that, you know, it’s going to hit your pocketbook, but to get the value of a 2-year MBA program is really early in your career to just to jump into it and to say it’s going to cost me less and it’s really going to set up this path for me to really, you know, kind of catapult you into a career that you can really grow and get a leadership role eventually. So, yes, it is definitely less expensive compared to the 2-year MBA programs.
[00:02:53] – Pola
So that’s, that’s, I’m glad we’ve laid that foundation. And let’s look now at this list from the FT. So this just came out this week and it’s looking like St. Gallen, this, this small Swiss school that we’ve been talking about, is in first place again. But that aside, almost everything else moved around. So for instance, we’ve got Nova School of Business and Economics in Portugal, which jumped to number 2. That’s its best ever finish. And interestingly, the French schools INSEAD and HEC Paris both slid down the rankings. So those are, those are 2 things that happened. There’s also something that I noticed which struck my eye. Rabat Business School in Morocco actually cracked the top 10 for the first time, and that’s the first African program to ever do that, climbing from 32nd place a couple years back. So Maria, what do you make of these changes? And specifically in Rabat’s case, what do you make of programs outside this, these traditional Western hubs for business education rising so quickly in this ranking? Yeah.
[00:04:14] – Maria
So one of the things that the FT ranking has always focused on more perhaps than other rankings is not simply what is that post-graduation salary level, but they really look at the delta, the difference. What are those increases? And how does that also compare with the cost of the program? So for example, a program might graduate people who are making less when they graduate, but if the program itself costs less in the first place, that might work in its favor in the way how the FT calculates this value for money type of element. They also tend to— they don’t look at the salary of its graduates in absolute dollar or euro terms. They adapt it for purchasing power parity. So that is to say, you might be earning less in US dollars, but if you’re living in a country where the cost of living is far lower, that also benefits you. So Little things like this, when they add up to all, you know, when you think about all the things that the FT considers in its ranking, they do tend to sway and help bring out or to elevate programs in places like Morocco, or perhaps, you know, these, these other programs that might be in slightly less expensive areas, or they might be letting in people who then have a higher jump when they graduate.
[00:05:36] – Maria
So, for example, I would have to imagine. I mean, they don’t release all of the data, but I can imagine if I were to see the data that we would see that a lot of people who enter INSEAD, perhaps they came, you know, they may have come from, if they did take some time off, usually the MIM is a pre-experience degree, but sometimes people might have a year or 2 of experience. So if they came in and they were earning more money working in the EU, then they might be making more money, but then that delta might be different. So I do think that that’s an interesting facet of the FT methodology that does help elevate schools that might not otherwise get the spotlight.
[00:06:12] – Pola
Definitely. No, I mean, it’s exciting. I think it’s exciting anyway to see those schools, as you say, elevated. And just kind of a quick question, you said MIM. Is it Master’s in Management?
[00:06:24] – Michelle
MIM?
[00:06:25] – Pola
MIM? Do people say MIM? Is that a thing?
[00:06:29] – Maria
I don’t know. I think they probably do refer to it as MIM, but I mean, I was explaining it in case anyone listening did not, you know, they just need an acronym explained.
[00:06:40] – Pola
No, I actually, yeah, no, it’s an open question for me. So, so on the flip side, Michelle, US programs, as we can see looking at this, are pretty much invisible in this ranking, despite there being dozens of MIMs, MIMs at top B-schools, and also 2 M7 programs. So Booth and Kellogg have a Master’s in Management. But only 2 US schools appear in the top 100 of FT’s list, and that’s Hult’s location in Boston, and then you have Georgetown McDonough. So why do you think American business schools continue to sit out this this ranking almost entirely with the exception of those 2 schools.
[00:07:30] – Michelle
Yeah, I think it’s good to point out that they do sit out. They opt not to participate. And I think to Maria’s point, one is how they calculate the rankings with the salary. But really the aspect is the international aspect and the studies and how these, you know, programs over, you know, across Europe and now, you know, Africa and China, that is a huge component compared, I would say, to the U.S. programs, that international aspect, from what again I’ve read and what I can kind of— my takeaways. Um, the interesting thing about Chicago Booth, it is a new entrant into this, having the program. So I did read that they actually aren’t even eligible to participate in the rankings until I think their first graduating class, um, it sounds like. But again, we have all of our top, you know, flagship programs that are offering, especially these standout programs with the MIM, um, that, you know, I think a lot of people, again, depending on where you are placing your value, where, again, if you are based in the U.S., will you move to Europe, etc.? But, um, they’ve decided, yeah, not to participate. And therefore Georgetown was just brand new this year.
[00:08:44] – Michelle
So now there are 2. Um, but it is definitely something to note. Um, but I think if you are someone that is, again, putting the time in to do the research, really understanding the value for yourself and the schools that are out there, even though they’re not— obviously they don’t show up, I think, on your own, that, you know, again, I think the overall reputation of these schools is, is really planted with their MBA programs. Um, and I think that really kind of defines the school itself. So I think you’re, you’re still gonna gravitate. like you said, to the Kellogg, to the Booth, that are offering the same Master’s in Management program, just, but don’t show up in the rankings.
[00:09:26] – Pola
And so, in talking about methodology, we’ve touched a bit on this already, but the FT weighs the weighted salary as the single heaviest factor at 15%, and then they look at a broader cluster of alumni outcomes. So they bring in pay and outcomes to roughly half the total score. Maria, should applicants be leaning that heavily on projected salary when they’re comparing programs?
[00:09:58] – Maria
I think it should be, especially because they do weight it by purchasing power parity, which I think is such a useful aspect of what they do. I mean, let’s be honest, the main reason people pursue these degrees is to get a better job. And hopefully they do it in a way where they’re also learning how to be good managers and good stewards of the planet and sustainability and all those other things. But at the end of the day, the reason people do this degree is to make more money. And so it makes sense that looking at those financial outcomes and slicing those outcomes in a variety of ways is one of the key, if not the key driver at the end of the day of these rankings.
[00:10:35] – Michelle
Hmm.
[00:10:37] – Pola
There’s something interesting. So Vlerick Business School in Belgium is tied for 6th place overall, but it’s actually the number 1 school in the entire ranking for alumni network strength, even though its weighted salary, which we’ve been talking about, is the lowest of any school ranked outside of that school in Morocco, Rabat. So, Michelle, how should someone weigh best network against best starting salary when they’re choosing a program?
[00:11:09] – Michelle
Yeah, that’s a tough one. To, I mean, to Maria’s point, where people are going to get a great job and to have their salaries start really high and, you know, hopefully take off from there. But I think alumni network is absolutely, um, a factor that is very important to people, especially being, if you’re early in your career, that growth opportunity to start to make those connections. So I really do, obviously, like you said, the 15% that’s weighted towards the salary, to look at all the different weighted criteria. And again, a candidate themselves to go and really go criteria by criteria and decide themselves which ones should I put a little bit more weight on or not, because it is quite interesting. But I would say that I think many people, besides their salary, number 2 could absolutely be the network itself. while you’re there and absolutely after you leave, because that’s really just going to strengthen your professional, you know, pathway. 2 years out, 10 years out are the people that you meet there that you, you reach out to and that are part of the alumni network from that school.
[00:12:20] – Pola
So, zooming out a little bit to look at the broader question here, which is Really, should I do a master’s in management and where? Maria, how do you know if this degree is worth it for you? And we know already that it’s a degree you go into without too much work experience, but then how do you decide whether to do it and also when’s the right time to do it?
[00:12:49] – Maria
I mean, I do think that there is a risk in going into anything, whether it’s medical school or law school or a MIM. Without knowing 100% what you’re getting into. So ideally, maybe you’ve been able to do perhaps some sort of an internship, or at least spoken to people who are ahead of you who might have graduated a year or two, who can tell you, well, this is what management consulting is, this is what asset management is, etc. So at least you can have a sense of it. I do think that part of why these programs are— have such a strong hold in Europe is that the European collegiate undergraduate experience is different than in the United States. So in many colleges in the— in the European Union or Europe or the UK, you can’t say, well, I’m going to enter undecided and I’m going to take a couple of business classes and maybe I’ll take a few finance classes. I only know this because my own child is starting to look at colleges and we’re like, okay, maybe Europe, because it has the benefits of it’s very focused, but the downside is it’s very focused.
[00:13:48] – Maria
And so, you don’t have the luxury of being able to take an elective in corporate finance or a couple of side classes in marketing. And so, I understand why in Europe, if you’ve, if you’ve done a more traditional undergraduate degree, or if you’ve read for the degree, as they, as they say in some places, that yeah, now it’s time for you to actually get those fundamentals. Um, and just, you just get it a year after the traditional collegiate bachelor’s experience, and then you essentially enter from there, whereas people in the United States might’ve been taking some of those classes all along.
[00:14:20] – Pola
Hmm. Yeah, I think that point about kind of it being limiting, being a useful thing, and also it’s an upside and a downside, right? Like that’s both the benefit and maybe the downside. That rings true. So just going back to the geography of all of this, Michelle, given how much of This ranking is dominated by European and now Asian and African schools. What should a US-based applicant take away? Should they be looking abroad more seriously for a master’s in management?
[00:15:04] – Michelle
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think they should consider it. I know when we speak with our Fortuna clients, and again, to Maria’s point, are they, you know, even, you know, looking into the, you know, management, the MIM program, and if that’s something that would be really of value to them. Having that discussion. And I think we, like, we start with our MBA clients as well, is what are you looking for? So I think it’s, you know, first to align your goals, um, and what matches best. So looking at, as we said, the curriculum, the network itself, um, the career management program. And I think you start probably— they, I’m sure they start very easily in the U.S., but now with this ranking, I think it makes a lot of sense to go and also consider, um, what does, you know, me going to a European business school Um, going over to China, what again, what does that cost me? And again, it goes back to, you know, what will cost me just both to attend, to live there, but also the value again of coming out of the program and the opportunities and the job placement.
[00:16:07] – Michelle
Um, and I think when we work with our clients, we definitely would have that conversation and discuss it. And I know there’s the, you know, INSEAD and LBS have again always been, had very strong programs. And starting there again with kind of those flagship MBA programs and going to HEC Paris well, that these are really— that this was their flagship program, right? And again, just the opportunity, and I think the international, you know, business mindset that you would want to, you know, start creating and building, there is a value add of going, you know, overseas.
[00:16:44] – Pola
Then going back to the top of this list, as we started, St. Gallen. Maria, if someone came to you and said, I have 3 offers. So one is from a prestige brand with a kind of all right value for money score, one from a smaller school with a killer alumni network, and one from a rising program still building its reputation. How would you actually help them think that process through?
[00:17:16] – Maria
Well, I think as Michelle was referring to, like, First, we start off, what are your goals? Like, for real, why are you even doing this? Do you want to live in Belgium? Uh, if so, then I’ve got the school for you. It’s the school with a really strong network in Belgium. Uh, so, you know, I do think that some of these programs you would have to look at what are your goals, what are the placement statistics, not just in terms of salary, but also geography. So, for example, INSEAD would have to by definition, place people all over the world versus, you know, Vlerick in Belgium. I suspect most people who graduate from that program probably end up in Brussels or somewhere very, pretty close by. And so, that also helps, that geographic proximity probably helps quite a bit with the alumni network strength. But if you want to live in Brussels, my gosh, there’s, this is the program for you versus if you’d rather have a more expansive network. Maybe it is worth spending the extra money. In some cases, you do get what you pay for, not always, but sometimes. And so I wouldn’t necessarily just go on, well, what’s the best value for money?
[00:18:23] – Maria
So it really, it just depends so much on every individual’s perspective, right? If for some people, if they absolutely have to have a scholarship in order to afford it, then maybe they have to optimize for different metrics versus if they’re willing to take out loans. Et cetera. So unfortunately, there’s no one-size-fits-all, but fortunately, there’s no one-size-fits-all in that there’s programs, there’s really a program out there probably for everyone.
[00:18:46] – Pola
And speaking of size, small isn’t necessarily bad as we see with St. Gallen, right? Small can be quite good. Sure.
[00:18:55] – Maria
I mean, if you want to, especially if you want to stay in that geographic area, if we were to look up their, again, if we were to look up their career report, I would imagine that INSEAD And LBS probably place people all over the world. I would assume that St. Gallen probably doesn’t place very many people at all in the United States, for example. So, you know, small can be great, especially if you are, again, looking to stay within that smaller geography, a more sort of limited, specialized geography, or if you’re really looking to make very strong connections with your classmates. Hmm.
[00:19:29] – Pola
And we’ve been talking about this Financial Times ranking, obviously. But before we go, I wanted to talk briefly about something new that caught my eye on LinkedIn. So, there’s this new ranking from a group called Inside Business Schools. I confess, I don’t know a ton about them. I know they cropped up this year at some point. So, possibly this merits a big cup of salt, as Maria said the other week. But They have just put up something that they call a best value master’s in management ranking. And they claim that rather than being about prestige, this is about really quality and it’s built on the FT’s own top 100. But basically they reweight this and create their own top 15 with Assigning slightly different weightings to, to different metrics. So employment 3 months out gets 45% of their score, value for money gets 35%, and then weighted salary for alumni gets 20%. So, Michelle, does layering a new ranking on top of an existing one like this— Actually really add anything?
[00:20:52] – Michelle
Um, it adds, you know, new, new things for us to talk about and for us to bring, um, you know, light onto their new rankings. It’s always exciting for them. Um, I think it gives it more data points for, you know, the candidates out there. I would say I definitely— I took a look at it. Um, I would encourage everyone to, but it goes back to Maria’s point. Everyone is placing their, their criteria Criteria is different, right? And what you place a value on. So I appreciate the best value of the school itself, but I go back to, I think, um, prestige is very important to people. So to take it out of the equation, sure, you can do that. But to Maria’s point, like, you are investing, um, and sometimes, you know, paying a little bit more here will get you out, get you a little bit more there. So I think there’s different things to consider. And, you know, At the same time, but it’s always exciting and to understand you know that they actually pulled it from the FT rankings and but then did their own. But it’s interesting. I wouldn’t put I mean a ton of weight.
[00:21:52] – Michelle
Everyone can you know take take away from it what isn’t is you know will be useful to them. But I you know there’s always it continues to add to the conversation, and I think I do appreciate again the new names that popped up this year with the FT rankings. I think you know the You know, landscape itself is, you know, as it, it’s good to see it continue to have different reaches into, you know, Morocco, etc. So, I think it’s just good to have the conversation. But I think personally, everyone is going to take away from it where they really place the value. And again, going back to why are you even looking to enter a program like this? And what are you hoping to get out of it? And there’s always an investment that you are making of time, of money. So. You can take it for, for what they— the information they give you in the schools that they rank.
[00:22:45] – Pola
Yeah, I mean, there’s also a question here around if you don’t know a particular brand, if you’re looking at a new ranking, how you know it’s— whether it’s reliable, or given that there’s scant data about metrics, whether you put a lot of stock into that. So Maria, this ranking was As I said, started this year. The LinkedIn page already has 2,000 followers. So how established or big should a ranking be to merit attention from applicants or schools?
[00:23:21] – Maria
I mean, I think at the end of the day, a ranking is only as good as does it pass the gut feel sniff test? So I think sometimes if a ranking comes up with some information or an ordinal list that you’re like, wait, okay, hold on. Why isn’t INSEAD at the top of this? Why is, you know, HEC or ESA or any of these, like, why are they all the way at the bottom of the list? Like, okay, I mean, any sort of ranking can be useful again if it does help draw attention to a school that you would have never even otherwise considered. That’s great. What a cool way to, to learn about something and maybe expand your horizons. But also, if a ranking, you’re like, you know, I think INSEAD is probably the best international global business school in the world. It should probably be number 1, if we’re just being honest, in between us, secretly between us, right? No matter how you slice and dice that. So, and I think in their ranking, INSEAD was 74th. So useful, but I don’t know that I would, I would not base my entire life decision on that.
[00:24:26] – Pola
Fair enough. And again, we return to Maria’s big cup of salt. So that’s become my favorite Maria expression, I think. Well, on that note, I think we will end, but thank you so much again, everyone, for listening. Thank you for joining us, Maria and Michelle, for stepping in at the last minute. And everybody, if you enjoyed this episode of Business Casual, please do have a look on poetsandquants.com for more episodes or find us on any of our numerous streaming platforms. Thanks so much for listening.
