Navigating the turbulent waters of the current US student visa situation requires a keen understanding of the complexities facing international MBA hopefuls. John Byrne, Maria Wich-Vila, and Caroline Diarte Edwards delve into the recent State Department decision to halt visa interviews, throwing a wrench into plans for many prospective students aiming to enroll in American universities. With the US looking to tighten its scrutiny on applicants’ social media histories, the hosts suggest critical steps to mitigate potential fallout.

One major piece of advice centers around purging or carefully curating social media profiles. Maria and Caroline strongly advocate for a thorough cleansing of any content that could be perceived as politically sensitive or provocative. Their skepticism about First Amendment protections in this context leads to the recommendation of a stringent approach—erasing any posts that might be construed as controversial, reflecting a broader concern about the lack of predictable legal protections for foreign nationals under the current administration.

For those already admitted to programs or considering applications, it’s vital to create a strategic Plan B, given the unpredictable timeline for the freeze lift. John underscores the importance of first-round applications for those targeting studies in the US, emphasizing that proactive measures will be crucial in navigating these uncertain times. For MBA applicants, understanding these dynamics and adjusting plans accordingly can make all the difference in preserving their academic aspirations.

Episode Transcript

Note: This transcript was generated by AI and may contain minor inaccuracies.

[00:00:06] – John

Well, hello, everyone. This is John Byrne with Poets & Clots. Welcome to business Casual, our weekly podcast with my co-host, Maria Wigfila and Caroline Diarte Edwards. We want to talk about, well, the elephant in the room. Maybe it’s really a dinosaur. The elephant in the room is a phrase that refers to a controversial issue that’s obviously present, but avoided as a topic for discussion because it’s more comfortable to just look the other way. But we can’t look the other way right now. What’s going on in the US with student visas is horrendous. Let’s just put that word on it. It’s horrendous. In the past week, what’s happened is the State Department has issued a memorandum to all the embassies and consulats, telling them to postpone and basically cancel all interviews for student visas for the forthcoming future. And there’s no timetable on when that will be lifted. The excuse that the State Department is using is that they want to explore deeper reviews of social media posted by students and applicants who are applying to US schools or are already in US schools as students. So obviously, this is going to put a big wrench in the plans of many international applicants who are hoping to come to the US this fall to start a master’s degree in any field or even an undergraduate degree.

[00:01:45] – John

It’s particularly going to affect MBA candidates who want to come here and take advantage of the great MBA programs that exist in the US. What do you do? We’re going to try to offer you some smart and thoughtful and honest advice at the moment. We have just posted a piece by an Indian admissions consultant about this. Both my co-hosts have strong reservations about one of the suggestions in that story. And so we may be able to start there. The suggestion in that article is, Hey, if you have something on a social media channel, be it LinkedIn, Instagram, X, Facebook, wherever it may reside, keep it there and that you’re okay with it, even if it’s anti-Trump. Maria, what do you think about that?

[00:02:40] – Maria

Yeah, this was the one piece of the article where my opinion in, and I think Caroline’s opinion also, we strongly disagreed with the article. The article said, Well, look, as long as you’re not supporting an overt terrorist organization or you’re not calling for acts of violence, mine or political discourse. I think the term might have been, Don’t whitewash it, or don’t try to sanitize your social media profiles just for this, that the First Amendment protections will still apply to you. I appreciate the faith that the author has in the current state of the US government. However, my advice differs quite a bit. I don’t just think you should whitewash or sanitize your social media profiles. I think you should take a gallon of bleach to it and then set on fire. I would not run any risk whatsoever of having even anything that could be construed as anti-Trump, anti-conservative, pro-immigrant. I wouldn’t even post things like, Oh, look at how much immigrants contribute to the US economy. Hooray. I often post things like that, but I would not post those things. It would just be cat videos, and Here I am on the beach on vacation.

[00:03:59] – Maria

I think That’s it. Because I, unfortunately, do not think that the standard rule of law or decorum currently applies. If it did, then we wouldn’t even have this current situation to begin with. And so to expect that, well, they’re going to be real level-headed about it. And if there’s one guy who’s got a thick skin, it’s that Trump dude. He’s not going to care if you posted a cartoon making fun of him. I don’t know. Again, I appreciate the faith in the current state of the US government, but the fact this was even issued, it shows that I don’t think it’s going to be as open-minded as one might hope.

[00:04:39] – John

Carole, and I’m sure you agree with that. I do.

[00:04:41] – Caroline

Yeah. Freedom of speech is clearly out the window right now. I believe that they will be screening for anything that could be remotely construed as anti-Trump. You should definitely delete anything along those lines, anything remotely political, as Maria said. Get rid of it on all of channels, cleanse your phone, your computer, everything.

[00:05:05] – John

Yeah, because there have been stories of people coming in the country from other nations who have had their phone seized and their emails looked at by authorities at the border. So you can assume the worst, which is the better place to be. Now, I want to maybe structure this conversation around three different groups of people. Those Those who have been already admitted and who are hoping to come here in the fall, those who are still in the pipeline waiting for a decision, and then those who are looking forward to applying in the forthcoming admission season, which will begin in September. Let’s start with those who have already been admitted, and you’re reading these headlines, and you’re seeing all these discouraging signs. What should you be doing right now, Caroline?

[00:05:59] – Caroline

Well, So for an international candidate who’s been admitted but does not yet have a visa appointment, obviously, it’s a very unpleasant limbo to be in. I think that some candidates have more flexibility than others. So for a candidate who has a lot of logistics and complex logistics to organize, such as moving a family, moving across the world, raising their financing, which may depend on confirmation of visas, then they may well be best advised to look into a plan B. But for a candidate who, where it’s just themselves moving, maybe they’ve got the financing secured, so it’s just a matter of organizing the visa, I would take a wait and see approach, although it’s always a good idea to have a plan B in a situation of uncertainty. And then just some people have more tolerance for uncertainty and ambiguity than others. So I think you have to decide how long you’re willing to wait to see how things will turn out. Also, we need to keep in mind that things in this current administration change from day to day, right? So one day the tariff’s here, one day the tariff is gone, it’s down again.

[00:07:11] – Caroline

Trump changes his mind with the wind. So 48 hours time, this situation may have changed completely and appointments may have opened up again. And so this could perhaps and hopefully all be a storm in a tea cup. So things might resolve themselves quite quickly. I wouldn’t turn down an offer for the time being. For sure, I would give it some time and wait and see. But just make sure that you are doing what you can to get yourself organized, both for your plan A of taking up your position and your spot at school, as well as investigating a plan B option.

[00:07:52] – John

Maria, what would a plan B entail, do you think?

[00:07:55] – Maria

Well, I think a plan B could be to be prepared hired to ask for a deferral from the school. I think a plan B could be to, if you haven’t already quit your job, to maybe hold off on that or to at least signal to human resources like, Hey, I might not be quitting after all. Yeah, I think it’s… I do think if we are going to hope that this is going to get either reversed through either some executive action or perhaps the courts stepping up. I would just, specifically in terms of what Caroline was saying, I would add on the specifics of make sure that you’ve already got all of those documents ready as if, though, your appointment is going to happen tomorrow. And I would also bookmark the page for those appointments. Sometimes it’s a few levels down. And I know this because I recently applied for a visa for another country, and it was in my own personal experience. The appointments link page is several layers down on the website, and they would release new openings. It was like every second night at 10: 00 PM, a new batch would open, and as soon as they were posted, they almost immediately vanished.

[00:09:14] – Maria

So if that’s going to be you, then just keep your eyes and ears open to the news. Have that bookmark ready to go. Have those documents ready to go. So that way you can just, if they do change course, which hopefully they will, You’re ready. You’re ready to jump on it. There’s no flustered, like, Oh, wait, where’s my ID? I need this identification number to log into the system to try to book the… No, try to get that all squared away now in the hopes that something will work out.

[00:09:49] – John

Well, should part of a plan B be saying to yourself that, Look, if an MBA for me is right at this stage in my career, and this is a problem in the US, should I now be looking at some of the European schools. Their admission deadlines are slightly off cycle, and there’s more flexibility in many of them because most of them have more deadlines than the US schools. I wonder, do you pick up the phone, you call up David Simpson at London Business School and say, Hey, I was accepted at Wharton. I don’t know if I can go now. Can I apply to LBS and get in in the fall? I mean, what’s wrong with that? I’m sure David David would very much like someone who has been accepted to an M7 school. I mean, if I was David, what I would do is I would say, Send me the application you sent Wharton that got you in, and that may be good enough for us. Am I out of my mind, Caroline?

[00:10:47] – Caroline

It doesn’t hurt to ask, right? I mean, for a September entry program like LBS, it may well be full. I don’t know how much scope they have to take additional candidates, but certainly worth asking. Then, of course, there are the January entry programs, which are still accepting applications. So that might be a better bet. And January is not long after September, right? It makes a difference in three or four months, and then you can start your MBA. And in fact, before, you would have graduated from your two-year program because they’re one-year programs. So I would encourage candidates who are thinking that they might not be able to study in the US to look at those options. So INSEAD, as you say, Paris, IMD, IE, some fantastic January Start programs that you could apply to now.

[00:11:36] – John

Right. And of course, it’s a plan B. Obviously, you had your heart set on coming to the US in this case. And For this group of would be students, we’re talking about you already being admitted. So a plan B is your cover in case you can’t exercise your plan A. So that’s what we’re really talking about here. I think it’s not a bad idea to think about a few European schools at this point if you hadn’t in the past, particularly if you’re an international applicant, because there’s also the downstream impact of the Trump administration. The downstream impact is if you were hoping that your MBA degree would allow you to get a job in the US with an employer, that, too, could be more difficult in this environment than it had been previously. Maybe taking the European route, where the programs are excellent. They’re often shorter, they’re less expensive. The quality of students is exceptional. So as a faculty, I think that’s a really viable plan B for people, to be honest.

[00:12:45] – Maria

Do you guys think that there’s a chance that the schools might enact some COVID type of protocols where the international students could perhaps attend class virtually for the first X number of months? Or I realized that this would be an administrative and logistical nightmare, but maybe school starts in October this year. Something along those lines. If there is some light at the end of the tunnel, and we know that the policy has been reversed, and now there’s simply a month’s long backlog of all of these applications so that there’s some certainty, but it’s just everything has been shifted by a month or two. I don’t know. This might not be realistic given how complex it is to run an institution of higher learning. But I wonder if something like that might be feasible.

[00:13:29] – John

Because they’ve If you’ve been through this drill before during the COVID years, I think it’s highly plausible that those early classes could be online and you could participate online until you actually can get on a plane and come here legally. I think that that’s very plausible. Depending on how long this lasts, frankly, many US schools will have no alternative. It’s every incentive incentive to make and be supportive of international students. When I say every incentive, it goes from the diversity in the classroom to the enriched discussions that will occur as a result of international presence. It even goes to a school’s financial, let’s face it. The schools do not want to give up a third to 50% of their revenue in an MBA program, and they also don’t want to accept applicants who are below their standards. Rather than shrink a cohort and have few or no international students, I think they would do everything possible to accommodate international students through deferrals or online classes initially until the backlog gets cleared. Caroline, you agree?

[00:14:56] – Caroline

Yeah, I think the schools are very committed to supporting those students and bringing them in for the many reasons that you mentioned. I think it’s a great idea to look at the option of Zoom classes to start with. I think that might be easier for schools than trying to push back start dates. Schools are just… It’s very difficult for them to change things. They are not the fastest moving institutions and trying to shift with the battleship to start in October rather than September might be very complicated. But as you say, they’ve done the Zoom classes before, so that could be a great option to allow people to start online and then come over later. But I suspect a lot of international students will be asking for deferrals, which is not ideal for schools, of course, because you don’t want a drop in students for one year and then have too many students in the subsequent year. It makes it very difficult to manage with the class size and all of the logistics. It can cause disruption on campus. If there are too many students who arrive late run because of all those deferrals. So that’s not the ideal solution, but I hope that the schools will be as accommodating as possible and be flexible because clearly the international students are in a very difficult situation right now.

[00:16:29] – John

Now, much of what we’ve said applies to those currently in the pipeline who haven’t yet to be admitted, and very well applies to those who are considering applying in the next or forthcoming admission season at the end of September. Are there any differences here, Maria, that you think should be under consideration by someone currently in the pipeline?

[00:16:56] – Maria

Yeah, I think someone currently in the pipeline who I’m always international. I would much more strongly urge a round one application this year. Obviously, the sooner the better is always the mantra, but I’ve never been so adamant that really that round one is important. I think this year I might put my foot down or be a little bit more stringent in emphasizing the importance of getting in round one, only because in that way you get your decision in December. And should the as a vetting process go from being a two to three-month process to now a six to eight month process, you’re going to be better off getting that decision in hand much sooner than you would be under normal circumstances. So I think that I would urge any international candidate to really try to hustle over the summer to get those round one applications in.

[00:17:54] – John

Right. Caroline, what do you think?

[00:17:58] – Caroline

Yeah, I think that’s very wise advice. Also, perhaps some of the international programs that we mentioned as well, so that you have a wider range of options to consider given the uncertain circumstances.

[00:18:17] – John

So let me ask a question that really evolves around ethics, okay? Should a candidate who has the wherewithal to find the financial wherewithal, donate to the Trump campaign? As many of the people who are now being pardoned for serious criminal activity have done so to gain a pardon from this President. Caroline, what What would you say?

[00:18:46] – Caroline

Oh, my God. Well, wouldn’t they have to donate quite a significant amount for it to count? And then would a student have those funds?

[00:18:55] – John

That’s what I say. If they have their financial wherewithal, I think there are laws. I would say, no, they shouldn’t do it. But on the other hand, other people have done this to gain a national pardon from a criminal sentence, a conviction that landed them in jail.

[00:19:14] – Maria

I think there might be laws against campaign contributions from foreign nationals. Oh, yes.

[00:19:20] – John

Well, look at that. But wait a minute.

[00:19:22] – Maria

We’re talking about a lawful society now.

[00:19:23] – John

But hey, isn’t there some crypto?

[00:19:25] – Maria

Isn’t there a crypto? You can buy his whatever Trump coin. Oh, yeah.

[00:19:29] – John

Buy a crypto.

[00:19:30] – Caroline

Crypto Slush fund.

[00:19:31] – Maria

Whatever that is, buy his crypto coin. Buy the new jet. And then you can show that receipt.

[00:19:38] – John

There you go. You put it up online.

[00:19:43] – Caroline

I posted about it on social media.

[00:19:45] – Maria

That’s right. Crypto.

[00:19:47] – John

And I can’t wait to see what the result will be. Have the State Department look at that. Now, we are kidding, okay? We’re joking around here, but the point is quite serious because of what is going on in the United States with these presidential pardons and how things are quite funky these days and really sad, to be totally honest. Because what these moves do is diminish, if not destroy, the dreams of really young, talented, smart people who want to make a better life for themselves. It actually benefit the United States in doing so. We are onabash supporters of international students who come here for an education, and we are onabash supporters of higher education in general. It is sad, disappointing, and even angry for us to see our government do this to this country and to people. So I mentioned that jokingly, but sadly, this is happening in this country today. Yes, the courts are ruling right and left against many of these actions, but it doesn’t clear up a lot of uncertainty. It’s very time consuming, and it’s very frustrating for anyone who has to depend on a court over ruling a government decision because it’s either constitutionally illegal or lacks complete and total common sense.

[00:21:37] – John

But that’s where we are today. I think one thing that I would like to do is to still encourage people to come. Yeah, the risk equation has changed. Yeah, there could be delays. Yes, there are additional frustrations. But once you get here, I guarantee you, you will not be unhappy with your decision. You will have little to no remorse. You’ll be welcomed and embraced, maybe even more so because of what’s going on, because people will give you credit for the battle you had to fight to get here. Maria, don’t you think that’s true?

[00:22:17] – Maria

Yes, of course. I think that’s true. I think we are all members of the same choir. You’re preaching to the choir. We just have to hope to hang on tight and hope that either there’s a reversal or the courts intervene or something like that happens.

[00:22:34] – John

Caroline, how can you encourage international applicants in this environment?

[00:22:38] – Caroline

Well, look, Trump can’t last forever, right? We’ve got to get through the next few years, but he will be gone at some point. We will get a new administration at some point. And an MBA is for life, right? It’s a fantastic experience. It’s a fantastic credential, and it will take you places that you couldn’t go otherwise. So I would take a long term perspective, and I’m very sorry for these candidates that have to face this short term uncertainty, but hopefully reason will prevail. We can be positive and optimistic that at some point these students will be able to get into the country because, as you said, it’s so damaging for the country if they are not able to come. And even some people in the Trump administration have to understand that at some point. So I think that this is probably a temporary situation. And I think that within the next few months, it will resolve itself, and international students will be able to come into the country. And as you say, on campus, I’m sure that they will get a very warm welcome. There will probably be fewer international students, and so they will be even more welcomed and valued as members of the community.

[00:23:51] – Caroline

And it’s likely going to be less competitive for international candidates as well to apply. So that should be potentially a very good time for candidates to apply because some people will be put off from applying in these circumstances. And so for those who do throw their hat into the ring now, they may have a better chance of getting in and things may resolve themselves. So it might actually be a very positive experience for them.

[00:24:19] – John

Indeed. All right. So there you have it. That’s our latest advice for you folks who are disappointed, frustrated, throwing your arms up in the air saying, what Now, have a plan B. If you’re going to apply in the forthcoming season, applying round one, your plan B probably should include European schools. You should be asking about deferrals and what the school goals, plans might be if, in fact, you can’t get a student visa to arrive in time for orientation or your core classes in September or August, in some cases, because let’s face it, some programs begin in mid-august. In the US. So that’s not very far away, and that’s a real problem. Otherwise, we wish you God speed, good luck. I still want to encourage you to try to come and do your best because you indeed will be embraced and welcomed by people who will appreciate the fight you had to make to get here. This is John Byrne with Poets and Quants. Thanks for listening.