Imagine pursuing an MBA without the traditional sacrifices of leaving your job and lifestyle behind. This innovative approach is precisely what Columbia Business School is offering with its new cohort-based MBA designed to mesh seamlessly with full-time employment. Pola Lem, Maria Wich-Vila, and Caroline Diarte Edwards delve into this groundbreaking program in their latest podcast episode.

Maria highlights the program’s strategic timing, emphasizing New York City’s rich talent pool and the tough choice many face between career advancement and education. She lauds Columbia’s effort to bridge this gap with a hybrid model that maintains the essence of a full-time MBA, offering the same faculty and cohort structure while accommodating work schedules. The twice-a-week evening sessions help foster a sense of community and momentum without the logistical challenges of traditional full-time programs, making it a promising option for high-achieving professionals.

Caroline brings attention to the program’s ability to facilitate immediate application of classroom knowledge, a notable advantage of part-time study formats. She points out that while the opportunity to integrate learning with current work experience is invaluable, there is a trade-off. The intense social and immersive experiences of a full-time MBA might be less prevalent here. However, the program’s design aims to cultivate meaningful relationships, albeit potentially fewer than those formed in a completely immersive setting. For MBA applicants evaluating their options, Columbia’s new program offers a compelling alternative that balances quality education with professional continuity.

Episode Transcript

Note: This transcript was generated by AI and may contain minor inaccuracies.

[00:00:00] – Pola

Can MBA students have their cake and eat it too? Or to put it another way, can working professionals do the full-time MBA without dropping their jobs? That’s our question this week. Columbia is the most recent business school to bet yes. Last week, it announced a cohort-based MBA where full-time employment isn’t just encouraged, it’s required. But will the program work? And also, how does it fit into the broader trends we’re seeing? I’m Pola Lem with Poets and Quants, and with me are my co-hosts, Maria Wich-Vila from ApplicantLab and Caroline Diarte Edwards at Fortuna Admissions. Let’s get to it. So Maria, can you tell us about this new program that Columbia has launched And how different is this relative to the other B-school offerings that are already out there?

[00:00:57] – Maria

Well, I think that it’s fantastic that Columbia has decided to launch this program. The only thing that’s surprising about it is that they haven’t done it sooner. I mean, given the extreme concentration of talent that there is in New York City, arguably probably one of the highest concentrations of talent in the US, if not worldwide, in terms of, you know, people doing all kinds of super interesting things. And I think that the trade-off between do I keep working or do I get the MBA has been something that has, you know, really, you know, tortured certain people who are high achievers in New York City. So, up until now, really, the only sort of top option in New York was the NYU part-time MBA. There were some others from the CUNY system, and Fordham also has one as well. But so, yeah, I think this is a wonderful hybrid. It looks really thoughtful. So, one of the things I like about it is that there is a cohort model. So you will still get some of those benefits of the full-time MBA in terms of getting to develop those relationships with people. And because the first year you go twice a week in the evening, I do think that that helps build momentum, that, that in-person aspect of it, the regularity of it, and the cohort model, I think, are an excellent way to recreate some of those bonds that occur in the full-time MBA program, but obviously without all of the other rigmarole and logistics of the full-time MBA.

[00:02:24] – Maria

So I’m really excited for this. I think this is going to be super popular, and I’m thrilled that Columbia’s launched it.

[00:02:32] – Pola

One fan right there. So Caroline, Maria’s already touched on this, but this new professional MBA by Columbia promises the same faculty, the same cohort structure, and the same access to the alumni network as the full-time MBA. Is that actually realistic though, or is something inevitably diluted when you’re not there? Well, not full-time, but when you’re working effectively?

[00:03:02] – Caroline

Yeah, I mean, there are some trade-offs to make full-time versus essentially this is a part-time program, and there are pros and cons of studying part-time. So there are definitely some pros in balancing work and study because what I’ve heard from students in the past who do Part-time formats, which include, of course, executive MBAs, are modular and part-time. The ability to take what you learn in the classroom and apply it straight away is really valuable. Of course, if you do a full-time program, you are doing a very intense experience for 1 year or 2 years. And by the end of the program, you might have almost kind of started to forget some of the things that you did at the beginning of the program. And if you haven’t applied it, then it doesn’t necessarily sink in to the same extent. And so that ability to take what you learn and use it straight away, I think, is very good for internalizing the learning. And then of course, you can bring back that learning to the classroom, right? So that peer-to-peer interaction is really enriched by people’s ability to talk about not just how they relate what they learned to their previous experience, but how they can relate what they’re learning to their current experience.

[00:04:20] – Caroline

So I think that’s a huge advantage of a part-time program. And then the disadvantage is that— can be that it’s not as intense a social experience. So if you’re studying full-time, people have stepped away from their jobs and most other obligations, so they’re able to fully immerse themselves in the experience. And there is a lot to take advantage of. So it’s not just the classroom experience, it’s all of the clubs and activities and treks and all the social activities. It’s an intensely social experience as well. And inevitably with a part-time format where people are juggling work plus study, it’s not going to be as social as that full-time experience. And so Whilst clearly they thought about that and sought to structure this in a way that people will form relationships and deep bonds, as Maria said, I’m sure that will be the case, you probably won’t come out with as many deep bonds as you would if you did a full-time program. So there’s pros and cons of each format, but as Maria said, I mean, Columbia has this incredible backyard, right? This, you think about the talent within the radius of the school that people can realistically come in for a part-time program.

[00:05:48] – Caroline

Makes a lot of sense. And I think also what we’re seeing is that there is some hesitancy among candidates to step away from the workforce for 2 years at the moment, given the pace of change and the uncertainty about how the job market is going to evolve, how businesses are going to evolve, and— And so this could be a great opportunity for people who feel that hesitancy, but still feel that they understand the benefit for them of getting the MBA. So I think it’s a very savvy move by CBS.

[00:06:27] – Pola

Another endorsement there, though pros and cons, as we’ve heard. So Maria, the first semester frontloads the intensity. You’ve got 2 evening classes a week, which you’ve already mentioned, and also these long weekends, sort of intensive each term in the first year. And after that, it eases up a little bit, so you get as little as 1 day on campus each week. So how should a working applicant think about whether their job and life can actually accommodate that schedule? first-year crunch?

[00:07:07] – Maria

Well, uh, maybe this is where the much-hated GMAT, for example, might be a good gauge. If you are studying for the GMAT or the GRE or the, you know, whatever the test is to apply, um, you know, even if you, you don’t technically, you know, need it or what the case may be, like, at least studying, the act of studying and forcing yourself to study, that might be a good litmus test to ask yourself, like, can I handle several hours, not just because you don’t just have to go to campus, but you also have to like do homework and stuff when you are not on campus. So can I handle effectively doing the equivalence of an MBA in terms of the academics while handling my job? I’m not sure. You know, I’m like, I think you just have to be really honest with yourself. And I think you have to be really honest with the people in your life about the fact that, hey, if I end up doing this, you’re probably not going to see me much for that first year. I might have to scale back. going out with friends, or I might need to lean on— if you have a domestic partner, I might need to lean on my partner a little bit more for the domestic upkeep or the child rearing.

[00:08:13] – Maria

So, in terms of— I don’t know exactly how you can determine if you’re ready for it, but I do think that if you are honest with yourself and maybe do some sort of a trial run, I don’t know, doing something intensive with your spare time that is academic in nature, maybe that could be a good way to test it out. But the good news is that first year is the only intensive year, and then And then it does seem like after that, there is more leeway in terms of how you structure it, which is great.

[00:08:41] – Pola

Yeah, maybe literally a trial run. Run a marathon. Prep for your marathon every day.

[00:08:48] – Maria

Sure.

[00:08:49] – Pola

So the applications for the inaugural cohort of this program open on September 3rd, and the first class starts in the summer of 2027. Caroline, what are the risks and advantages also of applying to a brand new program without any sort of track record?

[00:09:10] – Caroline

Right. Yeah. I think, by the way, I think this announcement comes a bit late given that round 1 is September 3rd. So, they haven’t given people much time to think about this and dive in. So, I imagine they won’t necessarily get a ton of applications for round 1 itself. Look, with a new program, of course, there may be teething problems as they’re figuring things out as they go. But I don’t think you take a lot of risk at a school like Columbia. It’s really an incredibly strong business school with an extraordinary history. And so I don’t think that there’s any concern that this program somehow won’t work or it will be seen as some sort of, you know, second-class degree compared to the full-time program. So I think it’s a pretty safe bet. Something to add as well is that MIT Sloan also added a part-time program. So they announced that I think a few months ago, and that will also start in 2027. So it’s interesting that now I think all of the M7 with the exception of Harvard and Stanford have part-time formats. So, and it makes sense to have a portfolio of degrees that give people different options to take your program, right?

[00:10:36] – Caroline

Rather than obliging everybody to take 2 years off out of their career at a specific point, at a moment in time in your career, schools have progressively given people more options to take it at different times or take it in different formats. And I don’t think there’s any real concern about whether this particular format will work or not.

[00:11:02] – Pola

No, that’s a good point. And actually, you’ve just skipped ahead a couple questions to—

[00:11:07] – Caroline

Sorry.

[00:11:08] – Pola

The broader trends. That’s all right, which I was going to ask about. So as you’ve said, this isn’t happening in a vacuum. MIT Sloan just launched their evening MBA. Chicago Booth and Kellogg already have similar programs. So, Caroline’s already touched on it, but Maria, what do you think is driving this wave of MBA without career pause programs and in the M7 specifically?

[00:11:39] – Maria

Yeah, I suspect that demand for these programs has surged given the amount of uncertainty that we are facing right now. I mean, there’s always uncertainty, but I think that it is especially top of mind for people right now. I think that people are extra afraid to leave jobs that may not be there for them. In 2 years, if they were to take a full 2 years off. I also think that, you know, we are all noticing that the career placement reports the past couple of years out of business schools are certainly still strong and solid, but not nearly as strong as they used to be. And so, in the past, where the ROI calculation was essentially a no-brainer, now it’s not as much of a no-brainer. Now, you definitely need to sit down and think and calculate the risk. And I think that this is a far less risky way to pursue the MBA education and get a slice of that MBA experience, if not the full thing, then at least a slice of it. So, if I had to guess, it’s because of, you know, there’s a fundamental difference. I think in the past when we’ve had uncertainties, it was, you know, the ’08 crisis, but we sort of knew that the economy might recover on some level.

[00:12:44] – Maria

We didn’t know how long it would take or exactly what it would look like. Same thing with COVID Like, okay, we hoped that eventually science would give us vaccines and we could get back to business as usual, but I don’t think that we can say that about AI. I don’t know that there will be a business as usual because of AI. And as a result, business schools, I think that selling that ROI because they can’t guarantee it, who can? I think that does become a tougher calculation. And so, that’s what I think that these programs do a great job of, you know, sort of being the best of both worlds.

[00:13:13] – Pola

Caroline, if you’re advising a client right now, how do you help them choose between a 2-year full-time MBA versus something like this, which is sort of full-time caliber, it claims to be, but then part-time pace program?

[00:13:30] – Caroline

Yeah, so it really depends on people’s individual situation and their obligations and their appetite for risk. I think that if you can, then I still think that the full-time option is a better option for most students just because There’s so much that happens on an MBA program, and it’s a really transformational experience. And I think being able to immerse yourself in that is very valuable. And I think that it’s also more enjoyable, right? I mean, it’s tough to balance study and work. I think that that is potentially pretty stressful. You know, most jobs are not sort of 9 to 5. They are very demanding at all hours, and if you are trying to deal with a crisis at work at the same time as you’re in the classroom or you’re working on an assignment, it is a lot to manage. And so I personally wouldn’t have wanted to do that. I’m glad that I did a full-time program and was really able to sort of step away and forget about other things and really focus on my education and focus on the group of people that I was with. And so, I understand that right now there is a lot of concern about uncertainty, and so therefore it may make sense for some people who are more risk-averse to pursue a part-time format, and that’s absolutely fine.

[00:15:01] – Caroline

But I think if you have a strong profile, if you have a strong career vision, if you have the resources to invest in your education while stepping away from your career, then in most cases, I would still advise people to do the full-time option. I think it’s interesting as well that they are branding this slightly differently from other part-time formats. And I think that that may be a conscious decision given that in the past, full-time programs are seen as the flagship, right? And so I think there has historically been a bit of a pecking order where the full-time is seen as the top-tier option, and then executive MBA is like the next most prestigious after that. And then part-time programs tend to be seen as a bit less prestigious than the full-time executive MBA programs. And so I think they are consciously trying to rebrand this differently from a part-time program by calling it the professional MBA and also emphasizing how AI is woven throughout. So I think they are trying to sort of separate themselves from the sort of branding, the concerns that people might have about a part-time format.

[00:16:20] – Pola

Definitely. Yeah, I think that’s what I was after when I said it at the beginning. It sounds like a sort of have your cake and eat it too positioning there. But on that AI topic, so Columbia says that AI is integrated throughout the core curriculum in this program rather than offered as an elective. And that’s obviously meant to be a draw. But from an admissions standpoint, Does that really change necessarily what the school’s looking for in an applicant profile, Maria? Is it, you know, will they be looking for more technical fluency maybe, or more, I don’t know, comfort with ambiguity?

[00:17:03] – Maria

I don’t know that they’re going to really change what they’re, what they’re looking for. It does seem to be going after very much the same cohort or the same population of potential prospective MBA applicants. Usually part-time applicants do tend to skew a little bit older, but Even more recently, I’ve been seeing more and more people who are at the sort of typical 2-year MBA level in terms of years of experience opting for that part-time program. I don’t know that AI fluency would be assumed because I think that were a master’s in AI, then that would be a very different conversation. But my expectation is that, I mean, all business schools are used to accepting people from all sorts of backgrounds, from software engineers to Teach for America teachers. So, and everything in between. So, you know, I would assume that there would not be a presumption of existing AI fluency or technical fluency. And so, I would not let that limit me. The one thing I would say, one drawback that did occur to me, ’cause I don’t wanna sound like I’m only cheering it on, another drawback aside from the ones that Caroline has also pointed out is I don’t believe that there’s a summer internship option.

[00:18:09] – Maria

So, if you are using the MBA to pivot careers, I definitely think it’s possible. I’ve had folks very resourceful folks in the past who hustle like crazy and utilize the career services offices, they still are able to, you know, they still manage to get those, uh, those pivoting career opportunities. But I do think that that is, that is something that if that’s something you’re really looking for out of the MBA, don’t count on this being an easy path towards that. Um, but I also wanted to point out, by the way, that, you know, Columbia also, even in the full-time MBA, they have a long history of offering classes at night. So I’m not at all concerned about The quality, I think if some other schools, you know, if Harvard Business School were to suddenly start offering a nighttime MBA, I’m sure that the quality would be excellent, but they don’t have an existing infrastructure to support nighttime classes. Not a huge deal, but still something to consider. Columbia, even in its full-time program, has long offered classes at night because it’s often many of these courses are taught by working professionals in New York City who do their day jobs and then come and teach at night.

[00:19:09] – Maria

So. I’m really not worried at all. And they have the existing executive program. So, I expect them to really pull this off pretty smoothly.

[00:19:24] – Pola

So, in thinking about applicants and the strategy that they take, Caroline, how does a program like this change how an applicant should think about their essays or their interview, provided that they’re trying to do this while doing their day job rather than justifying why they’re stepping away from work. Right.

[00:19:50] – Caroline

Yeah, it’ll be interesting to see if there are any differences in the application questions compared to the full-time program. I’m sure that they will be looking to evaluate if people have thought through the The need to juggle work and study, and if they are prepared for that, there might or might not be something about that in the written application, or they may be asking about that at the interview stage. So I think just that preparedness and a clear-eyed vision of what you’re committing to and how you’re going to use the program and realistic expectations will be important to communicate. Hmm.

[00:20:31] – Pola

Maria, if you’re weighing this program against a 2-year MBA, which we’ve already talked about, how much should the promise of not pausing your career actually factor into the decision versus other considerations like the Caroline point about the depth of your network or thinking about recruiting cycles?

[00:20:55] – Maria

It’s the primary benefit of this program. It is by far the number one reason why anyone would really do this is because they have a job that they love, that they don’t want to give up. Even, you know, this hits home for me because I loved my pre-MBA job, my complete, my 100%. I didn’t even recruit when I was in business school because I was like, well, I know what I’m doing. I’m going back to my pre-MBA employer. And then, while I was gone during those 2 years, they restructured, There was a whole shakeup. They completely overhauled everything, and that job wasn’t waiting for me when I graduated. So, if you have a job and you’re at a company that you love, or were, maybe you don’t love it. Love it might be too strong of a word for many people, but if you’re growing and you’re learning, and also you’re worried about, okay, I’m not really sure what is the world going to look like in 2 years. Maybe I need to hang on and get those extra 2 years of experience so that my resume is growing alongside my academic knowledge of business.

[00:21:54] – Maria

I think that’s the main reason why people should consider this.

[00:22:00] – Pola

So Caroline, looking at the bigger picture, we’ve been talking about the fact that more M7, well, most, most, if not all of the M7 schools are now offering these types of programs. If more business schools follow on this path of these kind of alternative to traditional MBA programs, does that traditional 2-year quit-your-job MBA start to look like the old-fashioned option at some point?

[00:22:37] – Caroline

Yeah, that’s an interesting question. I mean, I think that there will continue to be very strong demand for the full-time experience, especially at the programs. I do think that overall, if you look at the market in general, there will be more people going into part-time programs, modular programs, 1-year programs than there have been in the past. And so, I think that those programs will grow more than the full-time programs. So, I think that You know, it’s a natural evolution in the market. In a mature market, you get some diversity of offerings, right? So rather than just having one product with a full-time MBA, it makes sense that they offer a range of different options for people in terms of how to get their business school education. So I think that what we see, and I don’t expect this to change, there will continue to be an outstanding pipeline of candidates for the top full-time programs. But I think that these additional formats will continue to grow. Stanford and Harvard are still the holdouts. It will be very interesting to see if they ever shake up their own degree portfolios because, of course, Harvard only has the full-time MBA, and then Stanford has the full-time MBA as well as the MSx, which is a 1-year mid-career program.

[00:24:22] – Caroline

So, neither of them have an executive MBA or a part-time program. So, it will be interesting to see if that ever changes. Something else that I think candidates should keep in mind that we haven’t mentioned is that, of course, you get more diversity in a full-time program because people can come from all over the world. Whereas if it’s a part-time program, then necessarily they need to be living within a certain radius of the school. And so you won’t get the same diversity of professional or international backgrounds, and particularly international. So that is another trade-off that we haven’t talked about, that at the full-time programs, you get an incredible diversity of people coming from around the world, and that brings, that adds a lot to the richness of the classroom discussion and what all of the students can learn. Of course, there is a decline in international enrollment in the US schools, right now in any case, but if you look at the composition of the classroom at the part-time programs, then it is much less international than the full-time programs.

[00:25:41] – Pola

Yeah, good point. Maria, did you have any other thoughts on your mind or any— I’ve been watching your expressions throughout and there was a grimace at one point. I can’t remember what that was related to, something Caroline said. But any sort of drawbacks we haven’t talked about or upsides to this degree?

[00:26:07] – Maria

I think Caroline’s point about the international students is a really valid one. I would also assume that there is no, probably no way for if someone is an international student to get, I don’t know what the visa situation would be, but this degree probably doesn’t, I don’t know what the OPT situation would be or that work visa situation would be. So that’s another thing to think about is not only You know, your classmates, you know, maybe someone who’s international, who’s working in New York City, who might be, you know, but, but I agree with Caroline, it’s probably going to be primarily a domestic cohort. And it probably does not give those sorts of the benefit. The full-time degree also does give, at least for now, a potential to stay and work in the United States for several years, at least 3. We’ll see what happens. But, but I would assume that this program also does not offer that. So another. Another consideration for folks to keep in mind.

[00:27:00] – Pola

Well, I think with that, we will wrap it up. Thank you so much, Maria and Caroline, and thank you everyone for listening to this episode of Business Casual. We will be back again next week, and if you liked the discussion today, please check out our full list of episodes on Poets and Quants or find us on any one of our streaming platforms. Thanks everyone. See you next time. Bye.