Exploring the transformational experience of earning an MBA in Europe, this episode of the “Business Casual” podcast delves into the journeys of international students who have chosen European business schools over their U.S. counterparts. John Byrne, joined by Maria Wich-Vila and Caroline Diarte Edwards, guides listeners through the cultural and educational transitions faced by these students. The discussion is timely, given shifting global attitudes toward U.S. institutions, partly fueled by immigration policies and political climate, which have made European schools increasingly attractive.

A key insight comes from Caroline, who underscores the rich, multicultural environment these European programs offer. This diversity is not only present in the classroom but also permeates team projects, challenging students to collaborate with peers from various backgrounds. The experience is demanding and requires adaptability, as teams often comprise individuals with vastly different perspectives. This multicultural exposure equips students with invaluable skills for navigating global business environments, making them attractive to international recruiters who recognize their ability to adapt and thrive across borders.

Moreover, Caroline emphasizes the broader career advantages of a European MBA. Schools like INSEAD and London Business School are renowned for their global reach, preparing graduates to work in multiple countries and cultures. For those aspiring to expand their careers internationally, a European MBA provides a distinct edge, fostering skills that enable graduates to excel in diverse teams and environments, effectively preparing them for a world where business is increasingly cross-border.

Episode Transcript

Note: This transcript was generated by AI and may contain minor inaccuracies.

[00:00:06] – John

Well, hello, everyone. This is John burnt with Poet Ducquant. Welcome to business Casual, our weekly podcast with my co-host, Maria Wendt-Villa and Caroline GRT Edwards. Today, we’re going to talk about a story that we do every year, and it’s one of my favorite. What it does is it allows us to track down international students who have left their country and have decided to get a degree in business, of course, at a European business school. The latest iteration of that is fascinating. We have a number of people from all over the world who are currently enrolled in full-time MBA programs in a number of different schools in Europe. They talk about everything from their cultural transition into a new and very different culture along with the learning journey that they’re currently on, and what motivated them to speak something out of the ordinary. It’s timely, I think, because as you know, There are more people who are looking at the European business schools, probably than ever before, because the US has become, in some ways, less desirable to some students who are abroad and really don’t want to come here now, given the crackdown on immigration by the Trump administration and everything else that’s going on.

[00:01:38] – John

We think that, in fact, provides an incredible opportunity for international applicants because you’ll be competing against far fewer people to get into a highly selective MBA program. Nonetheless, in this story, we focus on internationals who’ve gone to Europe. Caroline, What’s your overview of the people who have made this choice?

[00:02:06] – Caroline

I think it’s an amazing opportunity to live somewhere completely different and get to know people from all over the world. You read this in the article, and certainly something I’ve experienced firsthand is a big part of the learning when you go to an internationally diverse school like in Seattle, London Business School, or the other schools that you mentioned in this article. A big part of the learning is from the incredible diversity and the richness that brings both in the classroom as well as outside of the classroom. It adds a very important additional dimension to what you get from the program beyond the fantastic foundation you will get, whichever of these schools you go to. You will get a great business education, you will get fantastic foundations, and you can tailor the program to your specific interest. It’s a great springboard into your future career, whether you’re planning to accelerate in your given sector or whether you’re looking to make a career switch, as most MBA students are. So beyond that, you will get that multicultural experience, and you will learn a lot about the differences and how business is done in different parts of the world.

[00:03:27] – Caroline

You will learn a lot about the challenge of working across cultures, and you will experience that challenge firsthand because you will be doing a lot of teamwork, and you will be put together in teams. You’ll be assigned to a team that has purposely been put together with the goal of making it, frankly, as difficult as possible for everybody concerned. You’ll have to work with a team of people from very, very different backgrounds. Even though everyone is incredibly smart, everyone’s very motivated, they all have met an impressive threshold to get into the school, they will be coming from a very different mindset, a different perspective. It can be hugely difficult to work together. That’s part of the learning experience is going through those painful processes and figuring that out together, even if part of the experience means literally tearing your hair out. It will be tough. It’s not for the faint of heart. You have to be adaptable. You have to be flexible. But if you’re willing to do that, then I think it’s a huge addition to your learning experience beyond what you might get in an American school where even though there may be a significant contingent of international students, there is a dominant culture that does impact how the classroom culture plays out and how teams work together.

[00:05:03] – Caroline

I think that it’s a wonderful addition to what you will get out of the overall MBA experience if you go to an international school and you get that international education. That means that then you are very well-equipped to work across borders, and that’s something that recruiters recognize. Recruiters go to schools like London Business School and INSEAD and IMD and so on to recruit for positions in multiple offices around the world because they know that they can take someone from that background and parachute them into a different environment. They’ll swim rather than sink because they’ve had that trading. I think if you do have international ambitions, if you want to work outside beyond the borders of your home country in the future, then getting an international MBA is a huge asset.

[00:05:57] – John

Yeah. I would say this, while it sounds fun and glamorous. I mean, there are some really hard reality things that you need to confront. I mean, just managing your way through a completely different culture poses challenges in addition to the obvious challenges you’re going to get in a rigorous, accelerated MBA program. Maria, do you have a key takeaway from the impressions of the students in the story?

[00:06:29] – Maria

Yeah. I mean, first of all, I applaud each and every one of them for making the leap. It’s not always easy to leave your home country and everything you’ve known and grown up around and to be surrounded in a completely different environment. I think it really takes a lot of an adventurous spirit, and it shows a lot of open-mindedness when somebody does that. I think that’s really wonderful. I think it’s funny I was reading some of them talking about the frustrations of having to set up a new cell phone plan or what have you. You get used to… In some countries, here in the US, you basically just go to a website and enter in your name and your social security number, whatever, and, Oh, you have this new thing. But in other countries, I’ve experienced this firsthand. In Spain, oh, my gosh, the amount of paperwork you need and everything has to be notarized and you have to prove so many things and there’s so many documents. You think something’s going to only take five minutes and it ends up taking four days. I think it’s also good for teaching patience and for seeing that there are other ways to do things and there are other countries organize themselves in different ways, and cultures have different priorities.

[00:07:43] – Maria

One of the things that really jumped out at me, there was a line in the article somewhere where, I think it was an American student was saying, In Europe, you don’t have to be so falsely enthusiastic about everything all the time.

[00:07:56] – John

In fact, I think that would be a negative.

[00:07:59] – Maria

Right. There’s certainly something to be said for US culture being overall a very ra, ra, you can do it, positive thinking type of culture, which is one of the things that makes US culture so delightful at times and yet frustrating at other times. I think just even encountering like, Oh, there’s different ways that people prioritize even their emotional states. I thought that was a really interesting insight.

[00:08:23] – John

Yeah, definitely. It is those little things. I mean, all of us have had the luxury and the privilege of living outside our home countries. And of course, Caroline, you’re living that luxury every day in California. And one thing you do realize is things that you took for granted, just aren’t as easy elsewhere, no matter where it is, just because you’re not used to it. And those little challenges can be incredibly frustrating at times, particularly then when you’re entering a highly rigorous program, you’re trying to get to know all your classmates in the incoming cohort. The work, frankly, that’s thrown at you, particularly in the early part of any MBA program, is more than you could possibly do on your own, which is the point. You have to prioritize and you have to work with others to get the work done. But that’s a lot of pressure in addition to just getting a degree.

[00:09:29] – Caroline

Yeah, that’s It’s true. I think that sometimes candidates, they don’t quite understand to what extent the MBA experience is all absorbing. For example, I’ve talked to students who’ve gone to in Spain or IE in Spain, and they thought, Hey, this is going to be a great opportunity for me to get fluent in French or get fluent in Spanish. But in fact, you’ll be with an English-speaking community, and that experience is all consuming. So You’re not going to be doing a lot outside of the school. Even though you are living in another country, and as you said, you’re going to be dealing with some of the practicalities of being in a very different environment and dealing with landlords and cell phone companies and medical services in a different language, which could be pretty challenging. But nevertheless, you’re not going to be really integrated into the daily life of that location. You are going to be living in a bubble of an amazing MBA community, and that is where you could be spending the vast majority of your time, and that’s where you’re going to be socializing. It’s a great experience, but you are not necessarily going to be living The life of a Parisian, if you go to Chasse or you go to Inciat, you’re going to be living in…

[00:10:52] – Caroline

Both those schools are located outside of the city. You’re going to be probably living in a small town, and you’re going to be very absorbed in the life of the school, which is a good thing, but don’t think that you are going to dramatically improve your language skills necessarily if you go and do your MBA in a different country.

[00:11:14] – John

The other thing to consider, Caroline, is your career ambitions. If your career ambitions do not include doing a global stint somewhere and you want to return to your home country, that could pose new challenges branches as well, right?

[00:11:31] – Caroline

Yeah, that’s true. I think it’s really important to think about where your network is going to be and whether that aligns with your career ambitions. I sometimes talk to candidates who for example, are working in the US and they’re from the US, they haven’t spent much time outside of their home country. It sounds so exciting to be able to spend a year or two in Europe or in Asia. What an enriching life experience that would be and so much fun. But if their plan is to come back to the US and their career is entirely focused on North America, then it’s not necessarily the best move to go to an international program. That geography question is really critical. If you do plan to be internationally mobile, it’s great to go to a school like London Business School, INSEED or as you say, or Oxford or Cambridge, because you will get that global network. I’ve moved around, I’ve lived in a few different places around the world, and being able to tap into that INSEED network has been incredibly valuable. But if you don’t expect to be internationally mobile, and let’s face it, the US is a huge market, you can have very different experience living in New York versus living in San Francisco.

[00:12:54] – Caroline

You can move around the country and have very different experiences. It’s The job opportunities are fantastic in the US. You don’t necessarily need to go outside the US to accelerate your career or to access opportunities. If you think that you will be staying in the US, I would really recommend attending a US school, even if you think that it might be nice to get out of the US for a year or two. You could perhaps do an exchange instead.

[00:13:26] – John

Yeah, that’s a good option as well. Now, Maria, what advice advice would you have for someone who is interested in studying outside their home country? We often say that you really should visit a campus no matter where you’re applying and sit down with some students maybe sit in a classroom and hear a lecture or participate, not even participate, but just be a fly on a wall for a case discussion to get a feel for what it would be like to be a student. I’m assuming that, boy, if you’re going to go and spend a year or two abroad, you really should know what that experience is going to be like, and you should be visiting that campus and spending a couple of days there, maybe, right?

[00:14:13] – Maria

Oh, absolutely. I think when you think about the investment of not only time, but also money for getting the MBA, whether it’s a one or two-year program, I definitely think that it’s a small marginal investment to find out in advance if it’s really an environment that you would want to be in. I think, for For example, as Caroline mentioned earlier, when I visited both INSEAD and ATESI, I was like, Oh, my gosh, they are, quote, unquote, near Paris, but neither one of them is in Paris. If that’s what you’re dreaming of, just be sure that the campus and the town that you’re going to is very different as opposed to IESE, which really is in Barcelona. You’re just a quick bus ride to the heart of the city. Really, don’t just think about which country you’re interested in living in, but also which environment. Do you want to be in a city? If so, then London Business School is going to be different for you than Cambridge. I think be very deliberate about the environment that you’re going to be in. Also start taking, again, as Caroline was alluding to, Start asking hard questions about the employment and think realistically about, Okay, how hard or how easy is it for someone with my citizenship to get a working permit or a work visa after I graduate?

[00:15:29] – Maria

Some countries, they might have, you have to keep track of visa changes all the time. There might be a situation where, Is my spouse allowed to come with me? Is my spouse allowed to work? Or, My children allowed to come with me? Just really doing that little bit of upfront research might save you from making a big mistake where once you get there and you’re like, Oh, no, I didn’t realize that no one in Germany wants to hire someone who doesn’t speak German. For example, I don’t know. I’m making that up. I don’t know if that’s true. But if It behooves you to do an ounce of prevention is going to be worth a pound of care in this case.

[00:16:04] – John

Yeah, we know that in the case of France, it’s almost certain that no one was going to get hired unless you can speak French. That is the reality. If you want to go to the school in a different country and actually work in that country, in all probability, you need to be fluent in that country’s language. That obviously, if you’re an American and you go to the United Kingdom, that’s really easy. That’s a transition for you. And so there is that consideration as well. I have to say that when I look back at my years in the United Kingdom, I had lived in London for about three years, It was one of the most formative and important experiences of my life. And I’m sure that the two of you could say the same thing about your international experiences. And Caroline, of course, is still living hers. Would you? I mean, in other words, when you look at the life that you’ve lived so far, would you say that the time that you spent outside the country living as a person in that totally different culture was incredibly formative and really contributed to who you are today?

[00:17:17] – John

Maria?

[00:17:19] – Maria

I mean, of course. It’s everything. I don’t know. My time in Hong Kong was just utterly transformative for me on every level. I think I in one of my business school essays, locations that were once distant pictures in travel magazines have now become ingrained into the fabric of who I am. I mean that.

[00:17:42] – John

You write well. I’d admit I can’t get you anywhere.

[00:17:46] – Maria

Oh, thank you. It’s almost like I should do this as my job for a living. How about that? That’s weird. I mean, everything, living in Hong Kong, everything from little silly things I learned how to… I didn’t really know how to use chopsticks particularly well. But even deeper things like exposure to Buddhism that I had never really had before. Having one of my colleagues took me to a temple for the Month of Hungary Ghosts in Taipei, and I got to participate in some of the things around that and learn about these different philosophies and religions that I’m… Something I’m just personally interested in my spare time. I love learning about other religions. It was great from that perspective. Just seeing other cultures. Again, in the article, some of these folks mentioned seeing what other cultures value. Many of us are quote, unquote Western. There are fundamental things that I think most humans value, but there are definitely nuances within that. What is the importance of the collective versus the individual? What is the role of government? Should government help pay for health care? Is it worth it to pay higher taxes for health care? Some of these societal issues, I think when you see how other societies are making it work or not making it work, I definitely think it just opens your mind a little bit more.

[00:19:05] – Maria

So on everything from cuisine to spirituality and friendship and everything in between, it really does change your life for the better.

[00:19:15] – John

True. And, Carole, I’m sure you’ve experienced the same. I mean, you’ve lived in a number of places. I first met you in India.

[00:19:22] – Caroline

That’s right. Yeah, I’ve moved around a lot. Yeah. So it’s hard for me to imagine my life without that. It’s very enriching, an incredible learning experience. But I would also say that it’s not always easy. Sometimes when I’ve moved to a new place, especially when I was moving on my own, it can take a while to make friends, to improve the language skills, to really be able to connect with people. Of course, when I went to business school, it’s much easier because you’re arriving with a cohort of students and everyone is very open and you make friends very quickly. But I moved around a bit in my 20s, relocated for work, I went by myself, and I learned a huge amount, but it wasn’t Emily in Paris. It can be a big learning curve. But sometimes the more difficult experiences are the ones from which you learn the most. I think that helped me to really learn a lot about myself. I think you mature much more quickly in your 20s if you do expose yourself to uncomfortable situations and get outside of your home country. So ultimately, all of those experiences were great, but it wasn’t all champagne and parties from day one.

[00:20:48] – John

My goodness. I even remember the hassle to open a bank account. You think that that would be the easiest thing in the world to do. And in my language, well, my in London. But I remember the amount of paperwork and the delays simply to open a bank account or to get my driver’s license in London and to register a car. I mean, whoa.

[00:21:13] – Caroline

Probably got harder as well now for Americans to get bank account outside the US.

[00:21:18] – John

It’s very, very difficult. Yeah. The things you completely take for granted, you don’t even think about, become somewhat complicated and challenging, which also suggests to me that if you do this, you should move well before the start date of your program to get settled and comfortable and to get all this nitty-gritty paperwork out of the way, wouldn’t you say?

[00:21:42] – Caroline

Yeah, for sure. I mean, definitely the early you the process, and for everything, for housing, for visas, it just all takes much longer than you would expect. And language barriers don’t help. So definitely give yourself a lot of time for that.

[00:21:57] – John

But if you’re up for it, I think it’s the of a lifetime, and you will learn a lot. You will mature more quickly. You will obviously get a great education if you go to one of the top European business schools. So check out the story. It’s really a fun read of people who have decided to sign up for this incredible adventure in their lives and create enduring friendships around the world. Because the other thing about any of these programs is that they are truly international, where there is no real dominant culture at the best business schools in Europe. So your exposure to people from every corner of the world is real and should last. Check that story out. This is John Burn with Poets & Quants. Thanks for listening.