Applying For A Highly Selective MBA Program Via Deferred Admissions
Maria |
March 19, 2024

In the latest episode of Business Casual, the hosts discuss deferred MBA programs, focusing on their appeal to college seniors eager to secure an MBA spot in advance, like Harvard’s 2+2 program. They highlight the strategic planning needed for such a commitment, the significance of strong academic and extracurricular records, and the upcoming application deadlines. They emphasize the benefits of applying early, such as the low-risk application process and the advantages of taking standardized tests while still in an academic setting. They also discuss the unique support offered by schools, including feedback for unsuccessful applicants, a rarity in MBA admissions. 

The episode is packed with advice for undergraduates on the importance of leadership roles and strategic career decisions post-acceptance, making it essential listening for those considering an early start to their business education journey.

 

 

 

 

Episode Transcript

[00:00:07.210] – John

Well, hello, everyone. This is John Byrne with Poets and Quants. Welcome to Business Casual, our weekly podcast with my co hosts, Caroline Diarte Edwards, Maria Wich Vila, and we’re going to talk about deferred MBA programs. They’ve become very popular. Most school have them, and obviously they are for graduating seniors in undergraduate programs who then will go on to work for a few years with an acceptance to an MBA program in their pocket. The most common or favorite or maybe famous of the deferred programs is the so called two plus two program at Harvard Business School, so named because obviously the idea here is you get two years of work experience and then you get two years in the MBA program. The deadlines for these programs are coming up for two plus two. It’s April 25, which of course is right around the corner. I’m going to ask Caroline who should be thinking about these programs, because you got to be really on the ball as a senior in an undergraduate program to be thinking you’re going to want an MBA.

[00:01:21.040] – Caroline

Yeah, I think it’s a great opportunity for college seniors who have a really strong academic track record and who perhaps have done some interesting internships and so have something to talk about with regards their experience so far and the things that they’ve got involved in and can demonstrate a really strong academic track record. We sometimes talk to college seniors who are thinking about whether they should apply and are concerned that if they apply and they don’t get in, does it then count against them if they apply two or three years down the line? And it doesn’t. Right. So I think there’s really no downside to applying if you think that you might have a shot. And it’s often the case that college seniors can do really well on standardized tests. Right.

[00:02:06.250] – Caroline

It can be easier for them because they’re in the mode already of studying and taking exams. It may be easier for them at that time to get a really good score on the GMAT or the GRE than it may be once they are a little bit rusty and they’ve been working for a few years. So it’s a wonderful opportunity to secure your spot at a top school and get some fantastic work experience and have that security that you have already secured your MBA. And I think the schools also do this because they’re competing with other graduate school programs where you can go straight from your undergraduate degree into another graduate degree. And so they’re looking to make sure that they get that top talent from the undergraduate programs and secure them for the MBA program rather than them considering other graduate school options at that stage.

[00:03:01.550] – John

Yeah. And I know obviously some of these programs are crafted in a way to give advantages to certain type of applicants. In the two plus two program at Harvard Business School, for example, a much higher percentage of STEM undergrads get into the two plus two program than do in the traditional admissions process. The last time we looked at it, 38% of the latest enrolled class going undergoing the traditional way to get in were STEM grads. But in the two plus two program, it was 60%. Far fewer majors in economics and business and humanities got into Harvard on the two plus two deferred MBA admit program. Maria, what’s your general advice to folks who are considering deferred programs?

[00:03:53.690] – Maria

Yeah, I mean, similar to Caroline, there is no downside in going for it now. You might as well. And in fact, the benefit is, even if you don’t get accepted, the benefit is by starting to learn about what business schools are looking for now, before you officially embark upon your career, you can then start making strategic choices over the next four to five years. So if you apply and you don’t get in, that’s okay, because that way you’ve at least got it, at least in the back of your mind. Okay. Now I know what business schools are looking for, so maybe I will raise my hand to take on that challenging assignment at work. Maybe I will step up in my community service. So I think that it’s a great opportunity for folks to do it if they’ve got the time. A lot of times there is a reduced or no fee to apply to the deferred programs. So really it’s mostly about, do you have the time to pull together those recommendations and the essays and what have you, and to take the standardized test. But aside from the time, there’s really very little downside. So I think a lot of people should, in fact, apply.

[00:04:57.550] – John

Yeah. And I know in some know there’s programming involved in the years that you’re working. Harvard Business School, for example, has a host of different programs, and it could be just meeting at a local club with a speaker, getting to know your other two plus two admits in that class, getting the advantage of doing some Zoom sessions with professors and things like that, which make it even more attractive to people who know they want to go to a business school. The other important note about this is what the research shows is that if you do take a standardized test like the GMAT or the GRE, while you’re still enrolled in school or shortly thereafter, you tend to do better. And it’s primarily because you’re in study mode, you’re taking exams and tests all the time, and so you’re far more likely to get a better score on the GMAT or the GRE when you take it then. So even if you didn’t apply through a deferred admission program, it may be a good idea to sit for a standardized test while you’re a senior because those scores are good for five full years. The other thing, of course, is you could go through this process and you already have a job.

[00:06:20.280] – John

Maybe you end up really looking forward to it and you don’t want to take advantage of it. You can just say yes. But then maybe later on you change your mind. Because it turns out that a fair number of people who are accepted in these deferred programs tend not to show up when they’re expected to show up. Now, some people are then given a little leeway and they can show up a year or two later or not at all. What do you think? Is there a penalty for people who don’t show up at all after being accepted and then later on have a change of mind because the job isn’t working well and they need to transition to something else? What’s your take on that, Maria?

[00:07:02.210] – Maria

I mean, if you don’t show up because you decide that business school isn’t for you, then what does it matter if the school thinks poorly of you because you’re not going anyway?

[00:07:11.580] – John

Yeah, but then you change your mind.

[00:07:12.970] – Maria

Then you’re just flaky. And I don’t know what to tell you if you swing so wildly. Usually, though, in my experience, if you reach out to the school and you say, look, I thought I was going to be ready to go this year, but I just got this amazing job opportunity. I think it’s going to be a great learning experience for me. Could we push it another year? I do think that in those situations, I do think that the schools are normally, they’re much more willing to give deferrals, I think, to the deferred applicants than they are for the standard applicants. And if anything, getting that deferred acceptance means that you can take more risks in your pre MBA career because you don’t have to have in the back of your head, how is this job choice going to look in the future to the MBA admissions committee? So I have a client who got into two plus two a year or two ago, and because they have that in their back pocket, they took sort of a risky venture, early stage type of job. It didn’t work out. It was not the right fit.

[00:08:10.810] – Maria

But who cares, right? Not that it would have been a big deal. It wouldn’t have not have necessarily been a candidacy ender for them had they been applying through the regular cycle. But there was none of that angst of oh gosh, this isn’t the right fit. I really want to quit, but maybe I shouldn’t because maybe it’ll look bad for business school. Like there’s none of that pressure. So if anything, I think getting a deferred acceptance under your belt is quite a liberating thing to have, even if you end up never using it.

[00:08:40.840] – John

Yeah, that’s really true. Now, Caroline, do the european schools all have deferred admit programs?

[00:08:46.350] – Caroline

So there’s just one school in Europe that has a deferred entry program or something similar to the deferred entry programs in the US and that is ESA. They have a young talent program and it’s actually not just for college seniors. Young professionals can also apply. So that is their effort to reach out to this talent pool at an earlier stage and tie them into an MBA at ESA rather than have those candidates then potentially considering other top schools as well. Having said that, that is the only school in Europe that does have deferred entry program. It’s not as widespread by any means. And that’s partly because the international schools in Europe, the cohort is often the average age is a little bit older. And so they’re not necessarily looking for students who are coming in two years post undergrad. Right. They’re often looking for candidates who have a little bit more experience than that. In the case of the one year programs, they really need people to have that extra experience because it’s a very intensive academic program and they want the students to be coming into the classroom and being able to relate their experience, relate what they’re learning in the classroom back to their previous professional experience.

[00:10:05.060] – Caroline

And if they just have two years, that’s sometimes a bit of a stretch. So the schools aren’t as actively recruiting people at that stage. On the other hand, I think it’s perhaps a bit of a lost opportunity because I think this is a great pipeline for the top US schools. And I think that the international schools might want to consider that because they are missing out on that pipeline of talent. And a lot of great students, particularly from the US, are getting locked in by the top US schools at a stage when those candidates haven’t even had an opportunity to consider the international programs. So I think it is a shame. Something that INSEAD will occasionally do is sometimes if someone applies too early. They will not deny that candidate, but say, please come back to us in one year or two years when you’ve got more professional experience. That is not uncommon at all. So in a way, it’s not a guarantee of admission, but they’re deferring your application because they see that you have great potential, but they think that you are not yet at the point where you can contribute enough to the classroom.

[00:11:20.400] – Caroline

And so they will defer someone’s application. But they don’t particularly encourage people to apply for that in the same way that the US schools are really looking to recruit people at this early stage.

[00:11:34.430] – John

One of the issues with deferred candidates is how to assess them. Obviously you don’t have work experience, so I would think there’s a greater reliance not only on the undergraduate transcript and your choices there, but maybe more importantly on your co curricular activities. Do you think that’s true, Maria?

[00:11:55.010] – Maria

Absolutely. Because there’s less data to go on. What little data you have is going to get more weight. So there is more of an emphasis on the undergraduate grades and definitely on those cocurricular leadership opportunities because you simply haven’t had an opportunity in the standard internship program. You’re still an intern. You might be a star intern, but you’re still an intern, right? So you’re probably not driving major new initiatives at a company when you’re there for two months over the summer. So I do think that a lot of times that extracurricular leadership is where you can then show to a school that you have those raw ingredients necessary to become a compelling candidate a few years from now. But speaking of becoming a compelling candidate a few years from now, I will say that I think that when people are business majors who are going to go work in banking or consulting after college, at least for two plus two, I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, but the spirit in which two plus two was created was not to find people that we were going to take anyway. A little bit earlier, it was more to try to expand knowledge of the MBA to people who were not otherwise considering it.

[00:12:57.640] – Maria

So if you are on that sort of standard pre MBA path already, absolutely apply, why not? But also have sort of a realistic expectation that at least for HBS, that program was not developed with you in mind. Right. Like, I don’t have know, put a ring on it to use a little Beyonce reference there. Why would a school put a ring on it now when I know that you’re going to be back in four years anyway, there’s a lot less urgency for me, versus if you are, say, a social enterprise type of person, and you’re considering going to, say, a master’s in social work or to law school. And so I know I have to get top of mind for you right now before you go off in a completely different direction with your life. So I do think that there’s that element of it as well. If you’re thinking of applying, just realize the spirit in which these programs were launched in terms of assessing and also not getting bummed out. By the way, if you don’t get in under deferred admissions, that doesn’t mean anything at all in terms of your future competitiveness.

[00:13:57.210] – John

In fact, what I found interesting, we did a story on the two plus two program and really dive deep into this. It’s called HBS two plus two, a no risk way to get into Harvard Business School question mark. And basically, the thinking here is that it is a no risk proposition. As we’ve pointed out, you get the GMAT out of the way at the best time. When you’re still a student, the application fee is lower. You get the chance for self reflection at that time, which could be very valuable to you. And if you’re interviewed and accepted, you get an experience, something that is really distinctive because of the additional program that Harvard builds into its program. The other point that was made when we interviewed the managing director of this program at Harvard was that when a candidate is turned down after being interviewed, Harvard is more likely to give feedback. And, in fact, in one year, 40 candidates were given phone calls by the director of the program to tell them why they didn’t make it. These touch point calls are rare. I mean, there are very few schools that do them, and Harvard definitely does not do them, but Harvard will do it for two plus two.

[00:15:13.440] – John

And knowing sort of why you didn’t make the cut after you were interviewed could be really helpful to you in terms of being competitive for other programs or being competitive later on if you apply with the mainstream candidates instead of through a deferred admit program. The selectivity of these programs are pretty similar to the general selectivity in terms of the percentage of acceptances, the standardized scores, your GPA, they’re pretty equal. And when they’re off, they’re not off by a whole lot. So the admission standards to these programs are just as tough as the general admission standards. But it is a good opportunity for a young person who knows that they want an MBA in business schools in their future. Any last words about this, Caroline?

[00:16:15.510] – Caroline

Yes, I do think that it is important to really invest a lot of effort in your extracurriculars if you do want to go down this route, because, as you said, that’s really your opportunity to demonstrate a lot of the characteristics that otherwise candidates are applying a bit later on can demonstrate, perhaps through their professional career. So it’s great if through your extracurriculars, you can demonstrate leadership, your interpersonal skills, your teamworking skills, initiative. There’s a lot of great qualities that they will be looking for that you, by definition, cannot demonstrate through your past two or three years of work experience. So those extracurriculars are really critical at that stage, and that’s something for students to keep in mind because it’s not something. Whereas with the GMAT or the GRE, maybe you can do two or three months of study and you can get an amazing score, but you can’t revamp your extracurricular profile in two or three months. That’s something that you really need to think about from the start of your college career. And building that up for students who may be listening, who are at an earlier stage in their studies, that’s something to anticipate that you can really work on and build up your profile if that’s a direction that you might be interested in going to when you get to your senior year.

[00:17:41.090] – John

And really what admissions officials are looking for is not that you did this, that, and then the other thing, they’re looking for leadership so that you actually led something and you had some impact. So it’s not just signing up for a bunch of different things at your undergraduate institution. It’s actually getting the chance to lead a club, an organization, and doing something when you are a leader, because that’s what these top schools will be looking for. All right, well, if you are in the market for a deferred admissions program, get ready, because you need to file an application pretty soon. Over the next month, month and a half, two months for some programs. Most business schools in the US do have these, and they are a great advantage for someone who knows they want an MBA. All right, you’ve been listening to Business Casual. This is John Byrne with Poets and Quants.

Business School News | General | P&Q Podcast "Business Casual"
Applying For A Highly Selective MBA Program Via Deferred Admissions
Maria |
March 19, 2024

Video transcript, for you skimmers out there: 

I love the fact that they. Report on this metric, right? The salary percentage increase, I think is an incredibly valuable metric because there are so many business schools out there that are great for so many people. And at the end of the day, these programs are in fact able to do what a lot of business school applicants are hoping for.

They are in fact able to provide a real change in the trajectory of someone’s career. They are, in fact, able to help people leapfrog. Into a higher career stratum than they would’ve otherwise been able to be in. So from that perspective, I love the fact that the FT reports on the salary percentage increase.

So valuable. I think it helps, when sometimes I talk to people at the beginning of the business school journey, I will frequently hear something like, well, it’s M seven or bust, you know, it’s Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, or bust.

And I’m often like, look, slow your roll, man. There are so many programs out there that are going to get you. They might not be the first ones that you think [00:01:00] of, but wow, does that even matter? I mean, whew. Look at some of these numbers. $170,000. That is nothing to sneeze at, especially if it’s one and a half times more than what you were making before business school.

I mean, wow. , That is life changing. , And these schools can really change people’s lives. And I think it’s important to have this metric available because I think it helps open people’s eyes. To, To be a little bit more open-minded. , And I think that’s wonderful.

Where my little quibble is. Is that I believe this is an important metric to report upon. However, I do not believe that it is a metric that should have significant amount of weight in the rankings because if we think about what is the purpose of a ranking, it is meant to be some sort of a representation of relative quality.

Now rankings. The entire concept of them is flawed the entire, for me, the entire concept of an ordinal ranking is ridiculous. Like school versus two versus four, versus seven versus six . You know, like, there, there’s sort of [00:02:00] these tiny miniature marginal differences. I think that school rankings should instead be in buckets.

Like, here is the top bucket, and then here is the also very good, but just underneath the top bucket, the next bucket. Um, but no one, no one listens to me. Uh, but so anyway, to the extent that a ranking. Is intended to be some sort of a measure of a program’s quality. I don’t think that this metric is one that should be included in the weighting.

Look, again, . Life-changing levels of improvements in salary. But when I look at, okay, so these were the top five programs by the salary percentage increase, but now when I look at it by the weighted salary, right, the top five US programs, by weighted salary, it’s not entirely accurate to say that.

Well, these programs, you start with people who have lower incoming salaries and they end up in the same place as the other programs. The numbers do not [00:03:00] really, , the numbers would tell a slightly different story. So if you look at the weighted salary a few years out for the top five programs by salary,

we’re talking about a $70,000 a year difference, roughly 240 a year versus 170 a year. That’s about a 40% difference, which I don’t think is a small, you know, if we were talking 5%, even 10%, I’d be like, yeah, 10%, that’s nothing. It’s, you know, nothing but 40% I do think is a pretty, I think it’s a pretty significant difference, uh, that is worth noting.

And so. Your point about like, well, they were letting in the people who were already on a, you know, if you were making, let’s see if we can, if we figure out, okay, so if we take this, these numbers, then we can sort of back into what’s an implied pre MBA salary, you know, that would indicate maybe something in the mid sixties before MBA versus, you know, one 10 something, [00:04:00] 1, 1 10, 1 15, for these other programs.

I get your argument. Your argument is like, look, these people were already clearly high achievers prior to business school, and so, mm-hmm. Is it not true then that the business school, like they would’ve continued to be high achievers And in fact, this is true, some of the most successful, financially successful people I know skipped business school altogether and they didn’t need it.

, However, I think GMAC often does, polls or surveys of MBA graduates, and I think the vast majority of them, at a minimum say that they’re glad that they went to business school, that they do feel that it was worth, their time. So. How much of this is,, nature versus nurture.

We, we will never know. , But I would gently push back on the fact that I, because these numbers essentially to the extent that they’re lower than say these numbers, it effectively penalizes thes e schools in this ranking. And for that reason, I don’t think that it should be part of the ranking because you’re penalizing a school for letting in more successful people.

But there’s a benefit. [00:05:00] To attending. Like, first of all, if you are a more successful person, think of the opportunity cost that you’re giving up. So the fact that these schools are able to lure away people to give up two years of their salary, in order to go to business school in the first place, I think is a pretty good indicator of the desirability or the perceived desirability of those programs.

Also, I do think that there is merit to thinking about like, who are my peers going to be in a business school? and. If a school is attracting people who were more successful prior to business school, I actually think that that is an indicator of the quality of the school, not only because it shows the people that are willing to give up those two years of salary, but also think about who the peer group is once someone is in the school.

Right? That means that if you are attending one of these schools. This percentage isn’t as high, but you’re surrounded by people who, prior to business school, were already achieving on a different level. And also after they graduate, they continue to achieve on a different level. True. The slope is not as sharp.

Right. But the.

[00:06:00] Result is a larger number. So I think that this implies that perhaps at the school itself, you might be surrounded by people who are driven. some people might say more competitive, which might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but people who are more driven and also after they graduate, they continue to be driven.

And so I think that also implies something pretty powerful about the ultimate benefit of the network because business school isn’t just the two years you go there and it’s not just that first job you get out of school or that third job you have five years out of school.

it’s also who’s your network gonna be and, and who are you gonna call 10, 15, 20 years after graduation? To invest in your company or to partner with your company or to start a company with. so I do think that there is value to attending a school and to have your peers during school and after school be people who were, for lack of a better term, high performers.

[00:07:00] I don’t think that this should be punished because I do think that this does yield a better business school. Experience and a better result in the long term. And so my quibble, again, I love this metric. I think this is an amazing metric to provide, but my quibble is that this should not be given honestly, any weight at all, and certainly not the high level of weight that it’s given, because again, you’re punishing the schools that, you know, you’re basically indicating that I, what I would say is an indication of quality.

An indirect indication of quality, but an indication of quality all the same. You’re basically punishing the schools that have sort of higher quality, quote unquote, coming in. And, and that to me is. Counterintuitive and kind of wrong. And so that’s why I continue to think that this should not be, uh, reported upon.

Absolutely. Tell us. It’s important. I think it’s great to know. I love using this information, but I don’t think it should be used in terms of like, let’s figure out which programs are the , [00:08:00] quote unquote highest quality programs. But what do you think? What did I miss? let me know. Thanks.

Maria

New around here? I’m an HBS graduate and a proud member (and former Board Member) of AIGAC. I considered opening a high-end boutique admissions consulting firm, but I wanted to make high-quality admissions advice accessible to all, so I “scaled myself” by creating ApplicantLab. ApplicantLab provides the SAME advice as high-end consultants at a much more affordable price. Read our rave reviews on GMATClub, and check out our free trial (no credit card required) today!