In a bittersweet episode of the “Business Casual” podcast, John Byrne announces his retirement as he introduces a new voice to the Poets & Quants community: Executive Editor Pola Lem. John’s departure marks the end of an era, with Pola stepping in to continue the legacy. Her extensive background in higher education and journalism positions her well to bring fresh perspectives. As she humorously discusses her circuitous career path—from studying Russian in St. Petersburg to covering higher education in Asia—Pola reflects on how these experiences will shape her journey at Poets & Quants.

John, along with co-hosts Maria Wich-Vila and Caroline Diarte Edwards, highlights Pola’s credentials with enthusiasm and a dash of humor. They joke about her potential spy career, while emphasizing the depth of her experience, notably her work with Times Higher Education. Pola’s approach to higher education, which she views as a transformative and equalizing force, aligns with the podcast’s advocacy for lifelong learning. This resonates deeply with listeners, especially MBA applicants who understand the value of education beyond mere financial gains.

As the podcast turns a new leaf, the episode serves as a reassuring introduction to Pola’s dynamic perspective. For MBA hopefuls and business education enthusiasts, it’s a reminder of the evolving landscape of academia and the fresh narratives that new leadership can bring.

Episode Transcript

Note: This transcript was generated by AI and may contain minor inaccuracies.

[00:00:07] – John

Well, hello everyone. This is John Byrne with Poets Quants. Welcome to Business Casual, our weekly podcast with my great co-hosts, Caroline Diarte Edwards and Maria Wikvila. I’ll remind you again, Caroline was the head of admissions at NCIAD and is the co-founder of Fortuna Admissions. And Maria, of course, is the founder of ApplicantLab and our favorite Harvard MBA. Um, a Harvard MBA who has never been indicted or gotten into trouble, incidentally.

[00:00:40] – Paula

Not yet.

[00:00:41] – Maria

Not yet.

[00:00:42] – John

There’s always a little— I want everyone to know out there that this is our 259th episode. Of Business Casual. We’ve been listened to by over 150,000 folks, and this is my very last podcast for Poets and Quants. This old guy is retiring. My very last day on the job is tomorrow. So, it’s kind of my pleasure to introduce you to someone who you’ll be hearing a lot from in the coming days, weeks, months, years. It’s our new executive editor. Her name is Paula Lem. Paula lives in London, although she’s an American, and someday will cross the pond once again to come back to the States. But Paula has worked in the higher education area before with Times Higher Education in London, which is our parent company. She’s covered Asia. And, and this is Maria and Caroline, you’re going to love this. She was co-editor of their rankings. Boo! No, we love, we love rankings, if only to discount them and discredit them. And in fact, in this week, the U.S. News MBA ranking just came out. We’ll talk a little bit about that, but I really want to use this opportunity to introduce Paula to our audience.

[00:02:20] – John

Has a very interesting background. She actually studied Russian as a language. And besides having covered Asia in the past for Times Higher Education, she has a master’s in journalism from Columbia University. Paula, welcome.

[00:02:37] – Paula

Wow, thanks, John. That was a very nice intro. Good to be here.

[00:02:42] – John

Tell us about your experience with higher education. You have 2 degrees. You’ve covered higher education in the past for Times Higher Ed, and now you’re about to embark on this business education journey. What are your general thoughts about higher education?

[00:03:02] – Paula

I think from being in it initially, I thought maybe academia was for me, but I decided No, I, I need a bit more boots on the ground, kind of.

[00:03:11] – John

Oh my God, you would be academic, no less.

[00:03:14] – Caroline

Didn’t know that about you.

[00:03:15] – Paula

Maybe. It was a vague thought in my mind at some point in my 20s, uh, but then I was, uh, studying Russian in Saint Petersburg. I had this idea, maybe I’ll go into academic translation and, you know, go, go the Russian route. And I thought I, I think I need a little bit more contact with reality and, uh, you know, the trials and tribulations of, of, uh, just everyday life. And then of course I went on to cover higher education, so that’s how that worked out.

[00:03:51] – John

But Paula, you would have made a great CIA agent.

[00:03:55] – Paula

Well, actually, this is all a cover, really. I’m actually working for the, for the U.S. government. Uh, I do like spy novels. So, but that’s, that’s unfortunately, I think, as far as that goes. But I, I think so. I initially coming out of journalism school, I was covering science and sustainability for, for a sort of newswire type place in DC and I was on Capitol Hill and that was all very exciting. And then from there, I kind of had a funny path via NASA covering Earth science and then working for a university. So I’ve worked for universities, well, on the comms side anyway, and then went into covering research. That skips through a few jobs, but, but effectively, the— my first job in the UK was covering research and the European Commission and the programs that they fund. And then I went from there to The And really kind of the Asia job I thought was great because you access so many things through higher education. Like it’s not about just universities, you know, this is about international student flows and finance and all the things that are going on in the world. So that’s a very kind of circuitous way.

[00:05:29] – Paula

What was the question again of answering it?

[00:05:33] – John

No, no, you, Yeah, it was really about how you see higher education in general. I think obviously we’re unabashed advocates for higher education. We still believe that it can transform a life. I personally believe that the most generous gift you can give yourself is number one, a friend, and number two, higher education, learning. That exposes you to new thoughts, new people, new ideas, and enriches your life in ways well beyond the simple check that you may be sent every 2 weeks. What’s your sense of it?

[00:06:14] – Paula

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think there’s this ideal that, that education is the great equalizer. And I know that there are a lot of things that are broken about higher education, but fundamentally, I think that’s the idea, you know, that, that you can come from whatever background and get an education and come out the other end and, and, you know, change your, your life trajectory. So I think looking into different issues in higher ed really lets journalists doing this be advocates for students, for universities, and, you know, help them keep doing great work. So, um, so Poets and Quants is another step in that journey for me. I think like doing the Asia job with The Edge, being Asia reporter, um, I really got to dig into those issues of things like academic freedom, censorship, what academics are up and students are up against. Um, and I think, uh, That was really exciting, feeling like, you know, on some level, like hopefully you’re making a difference.

[00:07:31] – John

Now, one of my big regrets is never having earned an MBA. I have what I often call, and probably in your case you wouldn’t call it this way, a totally useless degree in journalism in terms of my master’s. Incidentally, I was rejected from Columbia for my master’s in journalism. How about that? So you have that on me, Paula.

[00:07:55] – Paula

That’s great. I mean, I think different times, different stories there. But yeah, I, the regretting not doing an MBA, I think the more I read about MBAs, the more I think, oh, that sounds like a fun thing to do. And then I think I could not pass a GMAT for my life. So maybe I shouldn’t try. And also I’m well past the age of your average MBA student already, so—

[00:08:26] – John

Oh, you’re not too past. Do you think Paula would make a good MBA candidate?

[00:08:32] – Caroline

Well, I think that she’s going to be really in at the deep end at P&Q, so after a year or two taking over from you, John, I think she’ll have some amazing stories to tell in her application. So, hey, you never know, Paula. Never say never.

[00:08:50] – Paula

I think that’s a very kind way of saying no, you would not make a I’m a good business school student, and I would totally agree with that if that’s the assessment. But, um, but yeah, I, uh, it’s, uh, it’s exciting to learn about, you know, what these students have to do. Just, just the first step of the process, applying, is— oof, it’s not easy.

[00:09:15] – John

So, well, Maria, what, what advice would you give to get, to get her over, uh, GMAT anxiety?

[00:09:23] – Maria

Apply.

[00:09:23] – John

Sure, a lot of your candidates have the same fear.

[00:09:27] – Maria

Well, step one, apply to test-optional schools. Uh, so there’s, there’s that. And then also, like, honestly, like, on all— in all seriousness, like, if you are moving to the New York area, there are several part-time MBAs, uh, executive MBAs. There’s all kinds of opportunities, or even something shorter, perhaps a shorter sort of executive program that might be a week or two. But there’s, your business school education journey is certainly not even close to being over should you wish to pursue it. And the good news is the executive programs are often GMAT optional or GRE optional, or at most they might have the executive assessment, which is supposed to be kinder and friendlier. So, hey.

[00:10:10] – Paula

That’s a very strategic way of approaching it. In fact, Columbia, the reason I applied, I applied to one journalism school and it was Columbia. And it wasn’t only because of the reputation, but also the fact that they didn’t require a GRE score, which I hadn’t had time to, to take that test. So hey, that, that worked out well.

[00:10:32] – Maria

You saved yourself so much time. That’s amazing. Great.

[00:10:37] – John

Really true. So, you know, one of the other things that you left out of your bio was the fact that you had worked with senior producers at the BBC. On a documentary, uh, which— that must have been a really great experience.

[00:10:51] – Paula

That was— yes. So this was when I first moved to the UK, and actually I was working for a production company which then sold, um, you know, a full-length documentary to the BBC, and it was about this groundbreaking medical trial. Um, so I was doing a lot of the grunt work, to be honest. I wasn’t, you know, very senior in the process, but it was definitely— it took me into this world that, you know, you get to explore when you’re doing a long project like that, which is so different from day-to-day journalism where you’re just cranking out stories and, you know, on to the next thing.

[00:11:36] – John

Yeah, of course. Absolutely. Now, Caroline, what advice would you have for Pola in her new role role at Poets Quants?

[00:11:46] – Caroline

Well, she has very big shoes to step into. Oh, please. I’d just like to say, John, that we hugely appreciate all that you’ve done over the years. And before answering your question, if I may just say, you know, you’ve had such an incredible career as editor-in-chief at Businessweek, at Fast Company, and then founding Poets Quants. And Poets Quants, I think, has done a huge service to the world of business schools in that you spotted a niche that no one was really addressing the interests of candidates, that existing websites were writing more from a sort of industry perspective, more from an academic perspective, more from the school’s perspective, and you really saw that there was a gap in the market for addressing the interests of candidates. And it’s been a huge success and incredibly valuable to candidates as well as to the schools. So I wanted to thank you for everything you’ve done over the years.

[00:12:47] – John

You’re very kind.

[00:12:49] – Caroline

And you’ve had a tremendous impact on so many people and been a great inspiration to me and to Maria. So thank you.

[00:12:57] – John

Thank you.

[00:12:58] – Caroline

For everything you’ve done. But for Paula, I mean, Paula, you have a great background for taking this on. It’s a fascinating industry. I think it’s an interesting time to come into this because things are— there are a lot of shifts going on, as you know. We will see how AI continues to impact recruitment, continues to impact the curriculum at business schools, the expectations of students. So I think that the next few years are going to bring tremendous change, and we’re just sort of at the beginning of that. So I think that whilst traditionally academia doesn’t change very rapidly, as I’m sure you’re aware, educational institutions are typically very slow to move and can be quite resistant to change, but that’s just not an option at the moment. So whilst business schools might not have been the most rapidly changing institutions in the past, I think that that is in the process of changing, and so it will be— I’m sure you’ll have lots of meaty stories to get your teeth into over the next few years. So looking forward to following that with you.

[00:14:12] – John

That’s very true. I mean, it is a good time. There are a lot of big issues. Will sustainability make a big comeback in the US after this administration is gone? Will DEI return? What impact ultimately will AI play not only on the curriculum, but what employers will expect from graduates and how it will change the future of work in the world, frankly? And the, you know, the future of business education in general. I mean, obviously, we’ve seen explosive growth in undergraduate enrollments and specialty master’s degrees. We’ve seen the decline of, you know, the 2-year residential MBA. We’ve seen the rise of Europe in business education and in Asia, where it’s really a— it’s a global game for sure. And one of the things actually that Paula will be doing in the early part of her time at Poets Quants is really exploring the European and Asian schools more thoroughly before she comes back to the States later this year. So we’ll have her on the ground in London, ready with her passport to travel to all kinds of places and explore all kinds of schools and programs, which will really add a lot to the whole poets and quants landscape.

[00:15:38] – John

Maria, what’s your advice to Paula?

[00:15:39] – Maria

I’m glad that I came after Caroline because Caroline set that up so nicely. So I just want to— everything that Caroline said, I also agree with in terms of thank you, John, for what you have done for the entire industry and for having us on this podcast week after week. It has been an absolute delight and a real professional highlight for me, and I’m sure Caroline agrees. So thank you for that.

[00:16:02] – John

Oh, thank you.

[00:16:03] – Maria

Hola, I— in terms of advice, I think, you know, just, just start jumping in, and, and you’re going to start— if you start visiting campuses, just through osmosis, right, you’re going to start to learn both big details and small details, the nuances between the programs on top of like the very large differences between them. And just spending time on, on the campuses and just digging in. And also, I mean, reaching out to Caroline and to me with any— if at any point you encounter a term like, what does this mean, or what is, you know, Round 1, round 2, what is all this stuff? You know, just reach out to us. We, we will be happy to be a resource for you. But yeah, I think as you get into it, you’re going to realize that this is a very unique neighborhood within the broader graduate education landscape, right? There are a lot of very specific nuances that are, that are very unique to business education that other types of graduate programs don’t have. And I think it’s going to be fun for you to start to learn what those are and to uncover them.

[00:17:03] – Maria

And then to report back to the rest of the audience what you’re finding.

[00:17:08] – John

Indeed. You know, while I’m a complete unabashed advocate for higher education, even given all the criticism that’s been leveled at higher education in recent years, I’m a real believer in business education and the ROI that it provides. I think it’s a no-brainer investment. Uh, which is why we do what we do. All, all of us believe that. And I still believe in the value of a full-time residential MBA, uh, and what it can do to a person’s life, and how many people wrongly estimate ROI based on the simple starting salaries that people have when they graduate. When the true value of the degree is really long-term. It can change the way not only you think, the friends you have, and your impact in the world. It can make for a more meaningful and fulfilled life, which really is the most important thing besides what everyone tends to focus on, which is making money. Nothing wrong with making money, but it’s better to have a career and a life that you feel is filled with meaning and importance and making your life productive in the most important ways. So 259 episodes. Can you believe it? My God, it feels like we just only started.

[00:18:44] – John

Now, I can guarantee one thing to both Caroline and Maria and to the audience. Paula is a much more earnest and disciplined person. You know, I would say that 80% of the time, maybe even 90%, Caroline Maria have no idea what we’re going to talk about until we actually start the podcast. I guarantee you that Paula is going to be much more organized about this. You’ll have advance notice. You might even have an agenda. Can you imagine that? And I’ve told you, we really focus on two things. We focus on the journey and what happens in that journey for the applicant. So we’re very conscious of the seasonality of a person’s journey to business school, when they have to write their essays, when they have to get their recommendations ready, when they have to prep for for a standardized test, when they have to write their essays and actually apply, what things they should be looking out for. Then if they’re invited to interview, how to best interview. And those seasons are very important to the rhythm of what we do. And then of course, the other thing that we do is we look at all the big trends and all the big stories that are occurring in business education all of which end up on the front page of our website, Poets and Quants.

[00:20:18] – John

And those two things really guide what we try to do, always with thinking about the audience, you know, the people who are listening and what they need and what they want, which is the most important thing to serve our target demographic. So, Pola, good luck. Carolyn Marie, it’s been such an incredible pleasure to share this space with you two. I’ll actually miss you two. Can you believe it?

[00:20:49] – Caroline

We’re going to bring you back occasionally, John. I think you’re going to be far too bored on your boat and hanging out.

[00:20:57] – John

Oh yeah, I’ll be sailing.

[00:21:01] – Maria

I know, gross. Who wants to sit around all day and relax when you could hang out with us?

[00:21:07] – John

Oh boy. Uh, and for all of you out there, I hope that we’ve been helpful. Uh, I know that we will continue to be helpful. Um, and, um, really, best of luck, Paula. You’re joining a great team. I like to think of the people who are involved with Poets Quants as family. Uh, it’s not just another workplace, not just another job, um, but it’s a place where we are trying to inspire, encourage, and support people in a really big and important decision in their lives. So for all of you out there, good luck. This is John Byrne with Poets Quants. Thanks for listening.